How to bounce username for main account, but not for IRM

jsprowse · 04-13-2006, 05:57 PM

Here's what I want to do:

I currently get mail to several aliases on my main address, but need to turn off the main name because I get too much spam. I use the same name (let's say "me") for a domain I host on an IRM, but I don't want to bounce those emails. I also get mail to a bunch of aliases (from a previous host, yuck) at the IRM account, but rather than setup aliases for each of them, I want to get them in the catch-all account.

By the way, this email name doesn't currently have a POP3 account associated with it; in fact, mail to both domains only gets through via the catch-all account. Now I want to just bounce the address for the @maindomain.com.

I tried setting up a filter on the catch-all account (anothername@maindomain.com) to bounce anything sent to @maindomain.com (so that me@irmdomain.com would get through but me@maindomain.com would bounce), it bounced them both

. Even more distressing, the bounce mail said:

<anothername@maindomain.com> said:

No such user.

thereby giving away the *actual* valid email address underlying the catch-all account, which I would prefer not to get publicized!

So it should work like this:

1. Bounce any mail sent to me@maindomain.com
2. Accept any mail sent to me@irmdomain.com
3. Use the catch-all address for any other mail.

Clear as mud? Thought so. Any help would be appreciated. I'm not too well versed at how the layers of redirectors/forwarders/etc. work, but if I can figure out mod_rewrite, with a little help I should be able to figure this out!

Really happy to be at FQ, and thanks in advance,

:-j

*sheila* · 04-13-2006, 06:04 PM

You say you set up a filter that didn't do what you wanted, but you don't give specifics on how you accomplished that, so I can't really explain why it didn't work.

But to reject email to only one domain on your account, the simplest method is to use the Built-In filter option within your CNC and choose the Recipient filter and put in the domain that you do not want to receive email at.

If you are certain it is all spam coming to that domain, then you should delete the email and not bounce it. Bouncing spam causes repercussions for our network and your account, and could result in IP blacklistings for servers on the FutureQuest network and your domain. Usually the bounces go to innocent third parties who did not send the spam in the first place. They don't appreciate receiving the bounced spam, and will sometimes add the IP address that is doing the bouncing into a spam blacklist, thereby blocking outgoing email from our network.

jsprowse · 04-13-2006, 08:00 PM

Hey Sheila! Thanks for the advice about the bounce-- I had no idea about that. I will blackhole it instead.

Let me clarify that I don't want to delete *ALL* the mail on one domain, just one *name* on one domain. I know that the same name on a main and IRM account will use the same mailbox, but I'm only interested in this particular name if it's addressed @irmdomain.com.

So! After reading a bunch of threads in here, I used an SMTP Recipient filter on the catch-all account anothername@maindomain.com, that targets everything @maindomain.com, so I thought that in theory me@maindomain.com would bounce, and me@irmdomain.com would squeak through, but they *both* bounced.

The tricky bit is that the actual POP3 email account is anothername@maindomain.com, and all the emails contain anothername@maindomain.com as a "delivered-to" header (as well as the original email address I tested, like me@irmdomain.com), which makes me think that it's *this* address that is triggering the bounce, and not the original recipient address. I seem to recall reading that the "delivered-to" address was used, but what do you do when you have *TWO* delivered to headers?

Am I on crack here?

Thanks for your help,

:-j

*sheila* · 04-13-2006, 08:59 PM

I just did some testing on one of my own accounts, using the SMTP recipient filter, and it is working as expected for me with the following results...

There is one difference. I want to receive email at
sheila@maindomain.com
and bounce emails sent to
sheila@irmdomain.com

Other than that, it is the same type of setup.

I have my catch-all set up to forward to sheila@maindomain.com
I have put a Built-In SMTP Recipient filter on sheila@maindomain.com
(for testing purposes, I set it to bounce)
The filter is for: @irmdomain.com

When I send an email to sheila@irmdomain.com it bounces
When I send an email to sheila@maindomain.com it gets through

If I send an email to anyname@irmdomain.com it bounces, but the email address reported in the bounce message is sheila@irmdomain.com.

I'm afraid there is no way around the email address reported in the bounce message, but since you've been advised to not bounce those emails, but delete them instead.

I'm only getting one Delivered-To line in my email headers in the delivery failure messages. Is there some sort of additional alias forwarding involved?

If you have two delivered-to headers, then the higher one (which is the last one inserted) would be the one that happened right before the filter was run...

Overall, I'm having a hard time following this without the actual email addresses and being able to look at the email headers and see the exact filter in place.

jsprowse · 04-13-2006, 09:28 PM

Sheila:

I didn't post the actual email addresses b/c I thought it was bad form to post your email/web addy/etc. in the forums. Maybe that's not the case here, I'm just working from previous experience.

BTW, I've turned off the filter while we try to straighten this out. I didn't want my real address bouncing to spammers (maybe this isn't a valid concern) while we troubleshot. If you want me to turn it back on so you can test it directly, I can.

I'm not on my work email client right now, so all I can see is the message, but not the full headers. Here's what I got in the failure message:

"Hi. This is the qmail-send program at mx06.futurequest.net.
I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following addresses.
This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out.

<jsprowse@example.com>:
No such user.
Message rejected 1144959212 pid 27075

--- Below this line is a copy of the message.

Return-Path: <jsprowse@example.org>
Received: (qmail 28133 invoked from network); 13 Apr 2006 20:13:32 -0000
Received: from pt02.futurequest.net (pt02.futurequest.net [69.5.6.173])
by mx06.futurequest.net ([69.5.6.177])
with QMQP via TCP; 13 Apr 2006 20:13:32 -0000
Delivered-To: josh@example.net
Received: (fqmail 27067 invoked from network); 13 Apr 2006 20:13:32 -0000
Received: from mx07.futurequest.net (mx07.futurequest.net [69.5.6.178])
by pt02.futurequest.net ([69.5.6.173])
with FQDP via TCP; 13 Apr 2006 20:13:32 -0000
Received: (qmail 16308 invoked from network); 13 Apr 2006 20:13:32 -0000
Received: from cbe.ab.ca (mail.cbe.ab.ca [192.139.27.40])
by mx07.futurequest.net ([69.5.6.178])
with ESMTP via TCP; 13 Apr 2006 20:13:32 -0000
Received: from ([164.166.4.105])
by A400AVE1.cbe.ab.ca with ESMTP id KP-GYR78.34617749;
Thu, 13 Apr 2006 14:13:14 -0600
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5
Content-class: urn:content-classes:message
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Subject: test
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 14:13:14 -0600
Message-ID: <7B6B31E62C64334298480CB467E21794016AF99C@S400MSG1.B400.CBE.AB.CA >
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
Thread-Topic: test
thread-index: AcZfNrHI4EpYnAd2TMuJAByXOl8k4Q==
From: "Prowse, Josh" <JSProwse@---.--.ca>
To: <josh@example.com>
Cc: <josh@example.net>"

When I look at the headers in Outlook at work, there is another set of delivery headers, with "jsprowse@example.com" (the catch-all account) in the "Delivered-to" field, as the top header (last one inserted, which would make sense if it was being forwarded to the catch-all, and then filtered). I sent to josh@example.com (main account, to be bounced), and cc:ed josh@example.net (the IRM, to be kept), and both emails bounced.

Could this have anything to do with the fact that the addresses were To: and CC:? I would expect only to get one bounce, not two. I'm grasping at straws here.

To replicate my scenario, the filter should bounce the @maindomain, not the @irmdomain. That's what's not working, and I wonder if it's related to the underlying domain of the catch-all account. I'd be curious to see what happens if you change the filter, and then send a message to sheila2@maindomain.com and to sheila2@irmdomain.com (both non-aliased or pop3'ed, destined for the catch-all), if sheila2@maindomain.com bounces. For me, both of them bounced.

Thanks for your help,

:-j

*sheila* · 04-13-2006, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsprowse

I didn't post the actual email addresses b/c I thought it was bad form to post your email/web addy/etc. in the forums. Maybe that's not the case here, I'm just working from previous experience.

It's fine to post actual emails and URLs here. Of course, I would suggest that after this issue is resolved that you may want to edit the messages and modify the emails (or ask us to, if the editing window has expired) so that the spambots don't crawl this page and add your email addresses to their spam library.

Quote:

BTW, I've turned off the filter while we try to straighten this out. I didn't want my real address bouncing to spammers (maybe this isn't a valid concern) while we troubleshot. If you want me to turn it back on so you can test it directly, I can.

For debugging purposes, sometimes it is really helpful to observe the actual process.

Quote:

I'm not on my work email client right now, so all I can see is the message, but not the full headers. Here's what I got in the failure message:

That does provide the headers I wanted to see...the headers of the email that was "bounced".

Quote:

"Hi. This is the qmail-send program at mx06.futurequest.net.
I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following addresses.
This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out.

<jsprowse@example.com>:
No such user.
Message rejected 1144959212 pid 27075

Is "No such user." the error message that you entered into the SMTP Recipient filter?

Quote:

When I look at the headers in Outlook at work, there is another set of delivery headers, with "jsprowse@example.com" (the catch-all account) in the "Delivered-to" field, as the top header (last one inserted, which would make sense if it was being forwarded to the catch-all, and then filtered). I sent to josh@example.com (main account, to be bounced), and cc:ed josh@example.net (the IRM, to be kept), and both emails bounced.

Could this have anything to do with the fact that the addresses were To: and CC:? I would expect only to get one bounce, not two. I'm grasping at straws here.

Well, two emails were sent. One should have bounced (theoretically, given how you describe your filter set up) and one should have been delivered. Please re-enable the filter so that we can test.

Quote:

To replicate my scenario, the filter should bounce the @maindomain, not the @irmdomain. That's what's not working, and I wonder if it's related to the underlying domain of the catch-all account. I'd be curious to see what happens if you change the filter, and then send a message to sheila2@maindomain.com and to sheila2@irmdomain.com (both non-aliased or pop3'ed, destined for the catch-all), if sheila2@maindomain.com bounces. For me, both of them bounced.

I understand that, but it should be irrelevant, and I can't do it because it would cause me to lose email that I want/need.

jsprowse · 04-14-2006, 06:27 PM

Sheila:

I'm a moron

. It turns out that I had left an alias for "josh" pointing to the catch-all account, from my original setup. It was later when I realized that I was getting the spam from the other domain that I looked into the filters, and I missed the alias in the long list I was using.

This explains the two headers, and the bouncing. All is well now, with a delete filter getting only the spam.

Thanks for your very responsive help and patience

,

:-j

*sheila* · 04-14-2006, 07:00 PM

Thanks for the follow-up and the main thing, is that you figured out the problem and got it fixed now.

jsprowse · 04-15-2006, 04:32 PM

Sheila:

Actually, it looks like I spoke too soon. It's still not working: my test messages eventually were all received (not bounced or deleted), and I'm still getting spam at josh@example.com.

I've triple-checked everything, and to recap, here's the situation:

1. The main domain is example.com, and the IRM is example.net.
2. Shell account with the name jsprowse. It is where I want to receive all my @example.net mail, and it is also the catch-all account. It has a single built-in filter to delete any email delivered-to: josh@example.com.
3. There is another account, jsp, at which I want to receive all my @example.com mail.
4. There are many redirectors, but none of them act on the name "josh" so any mail to josh@ is being handled by the catch-all feature.

I just tried another test, and here are the headers in a message sent to josh@example.com, which should be deleted by the filter on the catch-all, but which was delivered successfully:

Return-Path: <prowse@------.com>
Delivered-To: jsprowse@example.com
Received: (fqmail 15085 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2006 18:53:05 -0000
Received: from mx10.futurequest.net (mx10.futurequest.net [69.5.6.182])
by pt02.futurequest.net ([69.5.6.173])
with FQDP via TCP; 15 Apr 2006 18:53:05 -0000
Received: (qmail 9819 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2006 18:53:05 -0000
Received: from pt02.futurequest.net (pt02.futurequest.net [69.5.6.173])
by mx10.futurequest.net ([69.5.6.182])
with QMQP via TCP; 15 Apr 2006 18:53:05 -0000
Delivered-To: josh@example.com
Received: (fqmail 15082 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2006 18:53:05 -0000
Received: from mx06.futurequest.net (mx06.futurequest.net [69.5.6.177])
by pt02.futurequest.net ([69.5.6.173])
with FQDP via TCP; 15 Apr 2006 18:53:05 -0000
Received: (qmail 22599 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2006 18:53:05 -0000
Received: from uproxy.gmail.com (uproxy.gmail.com [66.249.92.169])
by mx06.futurequest.net ([69.5.6.177])
with ESMTP via TCP; 15 Apr 2006 18:53:05 -0000
Received: by uproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id u40so475545ugc
for <josh@example.com>; Sat, 15 Apr 2006 11:53:04 -0700 (PDT)
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
s=beta; d=gmail.com;
h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition;
b=SAQejpNPPUE7fEtxKsQoYdzM06LJObyMgIFGuUXlrUTX3pMOwkF4JILxLiAzOou 0WInPb1lKE5RnLnOmGi/6psMvY0j6cs5kWRyDUhas54RZ9ySQbfV7+77/PyizOFtKeSaf0b18qMuY0v3kEgoA3cS9zgbVaCxiN9861b6khRs=
Received: by 10.78.43.1 with SMTP id q1mr15356huq;
Sat, 15 Apr 2006 11:45:55 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.78.18.19 with HTTP; Sat, 15 Apr 2006 11:45:55 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <6dd7522d0604151145r2f7aed2ai68431535521cc660@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2006 12:45:55 -0600
From: "Josh Prowse" <prowse@--------.com>
To: josh@example.com
Subject: should be deleted
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
Content-Disposition: inline

<end of headers>

Note the two "delivered-to" lines. I'm stumped. Basically, I just want mail addressed to josh@example.com to get deleted, and I don't care how it happens. I thought that having it go to the catch-all, and then having that account explicitly delete messages addressed to josh@example.com would work, but it looks like the delivered-to header gets changed along the way.

Should I just set this up as a global filter? How can I be sure that I'll receive josh@example.net but not josh@example.com?

Thanks for your brainpower on this,

:-j

*Randall* · 04-15-2006, 05:07 PM

Why not apply the Recipient filter directly to the "josh" alias, and simply block @example.com? That will leave your catch-all unaffected and eliminate some of the complextity. I haven't tried the Recipients filter on redirected mail, but that might be the source of your problem.

Filters work just as well on aliases.

Randall