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Old 12-20-2004, 06:26 PM   Postid: 122398
 Bob
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[FQuest Alert] AOL Email Issues

It has come to our attention that AOL may be blocking, refusing or dropping some email that is being forwarded from FutureQuest Accounts. Most problems reported up to this point have involved email sent to a FutureQuest email address that is an alias forwarding to an AOL address.

We have submitted their track back submission form in regards to this. However as of this time we have heard nothing further from them, which isn't surprising in light of past AOL email issues...
http://www.aota.net/forums/showthrea...3910#post83910

For a period of time it appeared that AOL was refusing connections from the FutureQuest MX servers however at this time it appears they are accepting but some mail is being reported as bounced after delivery and others simply are not arriving...

For those that have been around for a bit you will remember that AOL has been less than responsive to email issues in the past

If any additional information is learned we will certainly post it here.

-Bob

- email... the free sharing of information... unless its with AT&T, Mindspring, AOL... -
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Old 12-20-2004, 07:06 PM   Postid: 122403
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Re: [FQuest Alert] AOL Email Issues

Explains the "553 SMTP Relaying Denied" bounces I've seen from aol a little earlier...
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Old 12-21-2004, 03:24 PM   Postid: 122500
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Re: [FQuest Alert] AOL Email Issues

I just got a TOS violation notice over this issue. Would it be best not to have any aliases forwarding to aol from here on out? The one I had set up was for a personal friend, and I know he's not spamming anyone.
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Old 12-21-2004, 03:57 PM   Postid: 122504
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Re: [FQuest Alert] AOL Email Issues

Deb, I got an email response on this from you via vB but can't seem to find it on the board. In order to help with this problem, I want to remove nearly 100 aliases forwarding outside of FutureQuest's domains and get with the folks I set them up for. Is there some solution to be able to remove all aliases from a particular domain all at once?
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Old 12-21-2004, 04:00 PM   Postid: 122505
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Re: [FQuest Alert] AOL Email Issues

In General, yes, it would be "safest" to not forward email to networks outside of FutureQuest... AOL or otherwise.

AOL is just the tip of the iceberg it seems and other providers are starting to show signs of following the same path.

NOTE: FutureQuest is NOT banning the use of forwarding alias and similar functionalities.

The problem is that AOL, and several others, are taking actions that indicate that they themselves no longer want email being forwarded to their network from other networks. As per usual, the problem stems from spam

IF you do forward email from the FutureQuest Network to other providers, then it is important that you do NOT allow that email to be reported as spam.

The main problem happens when the following occurs:

Spam is sent from "some forged address" to your FutureQuest hosted forwarding alias or autoresponder

If Autoresponder:
The autoresponse (or a bounce message via a tool such as spamassassin) is sent to the "forged address" which happens to be an innocent party. When they receive the autoresponse they report it as spam and that spam is found to have come from your account on the FutureQuest Network rendering you and everyone else on the Network at risk of being blacklisted for allowing spam to be sent.

If forwarding alias, and primarily because of broken logic on AOL's side right now
The spam message that was sent to your FutureQuest hosted forwarding alias is then forwarded to the AOL email address and then, upon receipt, it appears that the account holder, or an automated process by AOL, reports the spam as spam and shows the spam as coming FROM the FutureQuest Network. AOL sees the spam as originating from FutureQuest and blacklists FutureQuest making it impossible for Site Owners to get normal email through to the _very large_ AOL Network.

Autoresponders, Bounce Messages, and Forwarding Aliases, are all excellent tools when used appropriately. It pains us that they have all been turned into BadThingsTM due to spam and spammers that are not generated by anyone on our Network, yet everyone on the Network must suffer because of it

If these tools are used on accounts that do NOT receive spam (do those exist anymore?) then they are fine. However, when they are used by accounts that do receive a lot of spam, the spam messages that are being responded to or forwarded to an outside network can backfire and end up looking like they came FROM you and the FutureQuest Network resulting in all of us being blacklisted

The majority of people that have received notices against their account for being reported as spammers by AOL, we believe, have actually reported themselves. E.g. they forwarded the email they received at their FutureQuest account to their AOL email address and then they themselves reported the spam to AOL who then pegged their FutureQuest account as the sender of the spam. Oh the irony.....

In short, the best way to keep your FutureQuest email safe from being accused of something bad by another provider is to keep your FutureQuest email within your FutureQuest account rather than risking bounces, autoresponders, or forwarded messages being reported as spam that originated from your FutureQuest Account.

The second best way is to ensure that messages you bounce or autorespond to are not spam messages and that messages you forward to other accounts you own, outside of the FutureQuest Network, are NOT reported as spam.

Network owners have become frustrated with users who use their networks for "spam collection" and reporting because there is simply too much of it to deal with and adding the additional spam issues that come into "outside networks" to the list has become extremely expensive. End result... at least in AOL's case, is that if you forward your spam to their network, from our network, and then report it as spam... you have successfully reported yourself as the spammer since they are seeing the email as coming from your "other account" outside of their network

Does the above help at all in explaining what is happening? If not, I have no problem trying to explain it a different way.... it's just a mess and AOL's inability (or ?refusal?) to see that the spam was not originally generated by the forwarding alias just complicates it further

Deb
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Old 12-21-2004, 04:06 PM   Postid: 122506
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Re: [FQuest Alert] AOL Email Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monty
Deb, I got an email response on this from you via vB but can't seem to find it on the board. In order to help with this problem, I want to remove nearly 100 aliases forwarding outside of FutureQuest's domains and get with the folks I set them up for. Is there some solution to be able to remove all aliases from a particular domain all at once?
Sorry Mont... I got a little trigger happy with the reply button before my response was completed...

RE: Removing all at once... no, unfortunately I think it's going to need to be done one at a time In the meantime try to discourage your users from reporting those forwarded messages as spam to AOL... it should help

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Old 12-21-2004, 04:16 PM   Postid: 122507
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Re: [FQuest Alert] AOL Email Issues

Quote:
The majority of people that have received notices against their account for being reported as spammers by AOL, we believe, have actually reported themselves
ah, now I understand.

If some solution to removing all aliases from a particular domain all at once surfaces, I am willing to kick the tires on that one. In the mean time, I am going to remove all the aliases I have on that *particular* domain one at a time until they are all gone.
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Old 12-21-2004, 04:20 PM   Postid: 122508
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Re: [FQuest Alert] AOL Email Issues

I have a client that forwards their email to an aol account as that is shared from various locations and aol provides ease of mail management for them (they're not computer savvy). They don't report spam to aol. Any suggestions, recommendations as they have also received a TOS?
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Old 12-21-2004, 04:32 PM   Postid: 122511
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Re: [FQuest Alert] AOL Email Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by hobbes
They don't report spam to aol. Any suggestions, recommendations as they have also received a TOS?
If you received a TOS in regards to their account then AOL reported email to us coming from one of their FutureQuest email address.

This would lead us to believe that AOL is taking this action unilaterally, scanning email and deciding it is spam without their users input... Hmmm why doesn't that surprise me with AOL

So this would seem to indicate that forwarding any email to an AOL hosted email account could, as it has in a number of cases we are aware of, cause them to report what they see as the origin of that email as a spam source...

Now this is obviously flawed logic, but not much more flawed, in my opinion, then the reporting of auto responders as spam.

If they continue to forward email to their AOL account, and FutureQuest continues to receive complaints/notifications from AOL then we obviously would have no choice but to take additional action for the protection of the overall futureQuest network...

-Bob

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Old 12-21-2004, 04:49 PM   Postid: 122512
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Re: [FQuest Alert] AOL Email Issues

I got all my aliases shut down on the domain TOS'd, except a three I know are solid. I am going to do the same thing on my other domains tomorrow. If AOL or any other ISP doesn't want email from me, then I will leave it to their users to complain. In all honesty, going through the list I deleted, I know many of them had new ISP's and new jobs. So maybe it comes down to "best practices" but aliases can sure become outdated.
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