Is this spamming?

Evoir · 12-10-2003, 08:49 PM

Hi,

Someone I know is in the publishing business. One of the things that they offer is classified ads to small businesses. If they go out and find leads (email addresses) on small buisness websites that target the same market, and send them an email offer... is that considered spamming?

Here's the thing. I know it sounds like harvesting email addresses, right? But, why else would someone put their address on a site but to be contacted? At what point is this considered spamming?

BTW: I hate spam as much as you do, but when it comes to the nuts and bolts of running a business, this just doesn't make sense...

Looking for feedback.

*kitchin* · 12-10-2003, 08:52 PM

I'm curious about this too, on behalf of a client. If the mailings are not automated, and are on a small scale (one or two dozen a week), is it spam?

*Melissa* · 12-10-2003, 09:04 PM

Hi Evie,

Just some food for thought from http://www.aota.net/Email_Spam_Preve...omplaints.php4 :

"Do not collect, or "harvest", email addresses off of directories or web sites for the purpose of solicitation. As the email is unsolicited, many recipients of mailings sent to addresses obtained in this manner will report it as spam, even if the solicitation is related to the topic of the web site or directory."

The key is "unsolicited". If they have not explicitly asked to receive such offers, there is certainly a risk there of being reported as spam. I have my email address on my site, however I don't invite nor desire to be contacted about every gadget or potion out there, even if it has something to do with the subject of my site. The point is there's a very fine line as to what can be considered spam and it's not always agreed upon by all. However, I believe when in doubt it's usually best to err on the side of safety.

Just my two cents. Here is an additional guide on Aota.net that may help as well:
http://www.aota.net/Email_Spam_Preve...anagement.php4

Best wishes,
Melissa

Evoir · 12-10-2003, 09:34 PM

Ok. Let's say I sell cheese. I go to websites that say "we buy cheese". I collect their address to send them a cheese specials pricelist. Is this considered spam?

Would it be any better to call them with the offer? Seems like more of an intrusion to call (and more costly and time consuming, albeit probably more effective in this day and age, nothing like a real person on the phone.

)

*Wassercrats* · 12-10-2003, 10:14 PM

I think "We buy cheese" is a solicitation, so it would be acceptable, as long as you contact them the way they ask to be contacted. If the context is such that they buy cheese from small organic farmers and you specialize in cheese made from drugged up factory farm cow milk, then it becomes more spammy.

MichaelC · 12-11-2003, 12:49 PM

By putting one's e-mail address on a public page, one is soliciting something. The real question is whether it's up to the sender or the site to say what that e-mail address solicits. And in a B-to-B environment, the definition of "unsolicited" is very different from its B-to-C definition.

There is always the danger that someone will cry "spam" out of ignorance or spite, but IMO, if you take care in determining what that e-mail address is soliciting, as well as the contents of your initial communication (which should be personalized and probably more of a "can I send you X" exploratory note), by both the letter and spirit of the law (and TOS) you're not spamming.

And yes, calling, in a B-to-B environment, is more effective by a mile, especially if you're good on the phone.

MC

scott99999 · 12-21-2003, 03:09 AM

I run a photography business (as an editor/buyer) and I have my e-mail address up.

If someone sends me a personal e-mail - with a note, addressed to my name - telling me about a service or product they offer that they're quite *positive* is something I can use - that's fine. If they took time to write a paragraph introducing themselves and actually typed-out each individual e-mail - that's fine.

If someone sends me unsolicited bulk e-mail, I don't want it. It's spam. If they're just sending me advertisements and I've never heard of them....it's spam. If they looked on my Web site and then copy-and-pasted the same solicitation they send everyone else, it's spam.

And it's very annoying....

For example, as mentioned....I am an editor and buyer of stock photography. How many photographers are there in this world? About 1 million. Do I want 1 million unsolicited e-mails from people who want me to buy their stuff? Absolutely not. My regular mailbox is already stuffed full of ads, catalogs and promo cards.

I **don't** put my e-mail on my site to receive unsolicited advertisments. I put it on my site so clients (and potential clients) can find me, and so all of the other friends/co-workers/partners, etc...., can get to me if they don't have my e-mail address handy.

*Randall* · 12-21-2003, 04:16 AM

Quote:

I **don't** put my e-mail on my site to receive unsolicited advertisments. I put it on my site so clients (and potential clients) can find me, and so all of the other friends/co-workers/partners, etc...., can get to me if they don't have my e-mail address handy.

That's a useful distinction. Displaying your email address in public shouldn't be an invitation for strangers to try and sell you stuff, whether it's germaine to your business or not.

Spam has polluted email so thoroughly that you have to expect hostility as the default reaction. Not a good environment for doing business.

Randall

UserName · 12-22-2003, 01:29 PM

Most people KNOW that there are harvesters out there scanning pages for email addresses. If you are aware that such practices exist then you are asking for trouble by putting up your email address on a web page. Well, not asking, but you can expect trouble. I don't put up my business flyer for fine furniture on a telephone pole or bulletin board in the rum district either.

The other problem from a business point of view is that email addresses change. If you wish customers to find you then an email address won't help, that's what a search engine or telephone book is for. If they already know your website then they HAVE found you. If you wish them to contact you from that same website then the proper method would be a contact form as it leaves no method apart from the form to contact you via the internet. That way your email address stays hidden, and you can change it at anytime without anyone spamming you or getting bounce mails.

I am still getting emailed spam from addresses that I had posted on webpages in 1999 that got archived....and spam to that address is actually increasing. You have to remember that google and some other services cache pages so even if you take your address down it may remain indefinitely.

Humble opinion - if you post your email address you can expect spam whether you ask or not. Go with a contact form. If you are a business the only way you make money (legitimately) is to find new customers and service old so personally target likely customers. Sending relative mail is fine. Just be prepared for a newbie to cry "SPAM" and have your ISP cut you off.

*Andilinks* · 12-23-2003, 11:15 PM

Spammers have become such pariahs and in extreme cases criminals, that trying to walk that fine line between spam and real advertising is probably not worth the business it might bring.

As has been mentioned earlier in this thread, the less personal a message is, the more likely it is to be resented as spam and perhaps may even poison the well for other later methods...

"Oh, XYZ Publishing, aren't you that firm that has been spamming us?"

"Yes, yes we tried that and may have to change our name now..."

Some of the spam that I now get is self-inflicted, things that sounded good when I signed up but have become spammier as time goes on. Spam is SO hated now that I'd say even anything close is a bad idea.

Just another 2 cents.

Andi