Help me understand IMAP vs. POP

[Alex Ethridge]

Using Windows 7 Ultimate and Thunderbird 12.0.1

I want to use POP and some mails, maybe one in a hundred, will not download to Thunderbird. The mails I have noticed so far that will not download have been plain text mails with no imbedments or attachments. As a matter of fact, the one on the server now that will not download to Thunderbird was actually sent by Seagate as plain text with no formatting.

This is a Thunderbird problem as the same mail will download to Eudora, which also uses POP on the same computer.

Is there a solution for this?

[Melissa]

Hi Alex,

I know we talked about this some in the thread you created for "Some mail on server will not download to client" late last month:
http://www.aota.net/forums/showthread.php?t=26243

Thunderbird suggests the same thing we normally suggest when this happens, which is:
http://kb.mozillazine.org/New_messages_do_not_appear

Thunderbird may have run into a problem downloading a "bad" (malformed) message. There is also a bug that can cause a similar problem (with some POP servers) if there is a pattern of certain control characters in the message body. You can workaround this by using webmail (a browser) to read and then delete the "bad" message. This should free up the logjam and let Thunderbird download any other new messages the next time it checks for new mail.

If you log in to QuestMail, you should be able to remove the offending message (remembering to empty the trash when done):
http://QuestMail.FutureQuest.net/

Then try accessing with Thunderbird again and see if that helps.

Note: You may also need to access your CNC Email Manager and make sure any mail still left in the account is reset as "New" as Bob indicated in the other thread.

If you can identify common characteristics of the messages that are causing this problem (i.e., spam from particular senders, etc), you may wish to try setting filters to remove those emails and prevent problems of this nature.

Hope this helps,
Melissa

[Kevin]

This isn't really a Thunderbird issue but a general POP issue. I have seen this problem with almost every POP client I have ever tried (ISTR one that simply auto-deleted emails it couldn't download).

I used to occasionally telnet to the POP port and manually delete the bad messages by hand but then I got tired of doing that and switched to IMAP.

BTW, the reason that web mail works when ThunderBird doesn't is because most web mail packages including QuestMail are actually IMAP email clients with a web interface.

[Alex Ethridge]

This isn't really a Thunderbird issue

I don't intend to be argumentative; but, I don't understand why this is not a Thunderbird issue. Eudora, Outlook Express and Outlook will download this problem message just fine. All are configured to leave all mails on the server for a user-specified number of days so as to see if other mail clients will download it, and they all do -- except Thunderbird.

So, in the face of that evidence, why is this not a Thunderbird issue?

To be clear, this problem message does not prevent other mails from downloading.

Also, I don't want IMAP as my protocol because I like to be able to set POP to leave mail on the server "xx" days. I don't get that option with IMAP.

Here's the mail with all its headers:

Return-Path: <donotreply@seagate.com>
Delivered-To: XXXX@XXXXXXXXXXXX.com
Received: (fqmail 25579 invoked from network); 03 May 2012 22:55:12 -0000
Received: (qmail 10229 invoked from network); 3 May 2012 22:55:12 -0000
Received: from pps0.sv-ext.mailhost.seagate.com (smtp-out.seagate.com [192.55.4.60])
by mx10.futurequest.net ([10.2.1.182])
with ESMTP via TCP; 03 May 2012 22:55:12 -0000
Received: from pps.filterd (pps0 [127.0.0.1])
by pps0.sv-ext.mailhost.seagate.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with SMTP id q43MoMlw014107
for <XXXX@XXXXXXXXXXXX.com>; Thu, 3 May 2012 15:55:10 -0700
Received: from sg-gw3.notes.seagate.com (sg.notes.seagate.com [10.4.111.212])
by pps0.sv-ext.mailhost.seagate.com with ESMTP id 14m2m00g1r-1
for <XXXX@XXXXXXXXXXXX.com>; Thu, 03 May 2012 15:55:10 -0700
Received: from asiapissapp1.ang.sing.seagate.com ([10.4.4.59])
by sg-gw3.notes.seagate.com (Lotus Domino Release 8.5.1FP2)
with ESMTP id 2012050406550943-1235931 ;
Fri, 4 May 2012 06:55:09 +0800
Received: (from applmgr@localhost)
by asiapissapp1.ang.sing.seagate.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/Submit) id q43Mt8tB017544
for XXXX@XXXXXXXXXXXX.com; Thu, 3 May 2012 17:55:08 -0500 (CDT)
Date: Thu, 3 May 2012 17:55:08 -0500 (CDT)
From: donotreply@seagate.com
Message-Id: <201205032255.q43Mt8tB017544@asiapissapp1.ang.sing.seagate.com>
X-Authentication-Warning: asiapissapp1.ang.sing.seagate.com: applmgr set sender to donotreply@seagate.com using -r
To: XXXX@XXXXXXXXXXXX.com
Subject: Ship Advice for Shipper Number 102957240
X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on SG-GW3/Seagate Internet(Release 8.5.1FP2|March 17, 2010) at
05/04/2012 06:55:09 AM,
Serialize by Router on SG-GW3/Seagate Internet(Release 8.5.1FP2|March 17, 2010) at
05/04/2012 06:55:10 AM,
Serialize complete at 05/04/2012 06:55:10 AM
X-Proofpoint-Int: 1
X-Proofpoint-FWRule: outbound2
X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:5.6.7580,1.0.260,0.0.0000
definitions=2012-05-03_08:2012-05-03,2012-05-03,1970-01-01 signatures=0
X-Proofpoint-Spam-Reason: safe

SEAGATE TECHNOLOGY
Your order has shipped!
======================
ORDER NUMBER: XXXXXXXX
======================

SHIP TO: BILL TO:
XXXX XXXXXXXX XXXX XXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXX XXXXXXXX

XXXXXXXX,AL XXXXX XXXXXXXX,AL XXXXX
United States United States

SHIPPING DATE: 05/03/12 CARRIER NAME: UPS GROUND
TRACKING NUMBER: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
LIN PRODUCT NUMBER PRODUCT DESCRIPTION SHP QTY
--- --------------------------- ------------------------ ----------
1 HM640JJ ST640LM016 1

-----------
TOTAL: 1

[Bob]

Hello Alex,

Actually this problem is more prevalent with Outlook, than any other email client i have seen. Outlook will generally just stop downloading messages after it hits a message it doesn't like.

However that doesn't mean this particular message isn't a Thunderbird issue, but our experience is that all email clients suffer from this at one time or another.

With IMAP all messages are left on the server until you delete them.

-Bob

[Alex Ethridge]

So, I guess is 1 point for the beast and none for me.