Help! Search Engine Problem (lost listings on Google)

*JRepici* · 02-25-2008, 06:47 PM

Hi,

I have a couple of pages which used to list in the top ten on Google with relevant searches, but now don't show up at all.

One of the pages is:

The Un-Methodology
This page also once produced a 4 or 5 rank in the Google task-bar, but now produces a gray bar.
The fly-over now says: No PageRank Information Available

This page is an article listed on dmoz.org. There are inlinks (based on the site-tool at Yahoo!, I have never been able to get google's inlinks feature to work).

There are two other pages with this behavior on the google toolbar, but other than to say that they were at least ON the index, I can't say where they were before I noticed this problem.

. . . . . . .

I don't know why this happened, but I noticed that there had been server problems here around the beginning of the month, based on the following stats chart:

http://www.creativyst.com/Site/stats0208.gif

Could this have anything to do with it? If not (or maybe) can anyone think of any other reasons why the above article stopped showing on the Google index?

Thanks if you can help.

-djr

*Andilinks* · 02-25-2008, 07:15 PM

Google just recklessly does as it pleases as though it were a corporation responsible only to its stockholders. I agree that their behavior is often harmful to the public interest and to the value of the Internet.

I don't think an occasional 404 will cause a loss of ranking, it would have to be a sustained absense to be dropped. I have seen PageRank persist on pages that have been missing for weeks.

*kitchin* · 02-25-2008, 08:59 PM

Google will ban your site if it thinks you are playing tricks to increase your rankings. I saw it happen to someone who hired one of those scam SEO operations. The ban lasted about four years.

*JRepici* · 02-26-2008, 11:02 AM

Hi,

AndiLinks:

Well, I understand a corporation's first moral responsibility is to its stock holders. I also understand that Google can do whatever it wants to the listing. I'm just trying to understand why. Even if the answer is "the game is rigged", one can usually find ways to shield him/herself in a rigged game by better understanding its nature.

I did find the thread on your experiences while researching this here on the forum. I'm always suspicious when people, like Google, make sweeping, easy-going statements about something as complex, deceptive, and subtle as, say, "evil".

Parenthetically: Often when people feel the need to explicitly characterize something, it's a pretty good indicator that the "something" contains little of the attribute they are trying to convince you it has. For example: "Philly" Cheese-steak, "distinguished" senator, "not-evil" corporation.

Kitchen:

I got that from my cursory research. Knowing that, I probably should have mentioned this in my first post:

1. I don't get involved in link-exchanges of any kind. I get the request e-mails, like everybody else. I used to open, and read them. They were almost always for links at sites that have nothing to do with the subject matter at my site. Sometimes they would talk about strange three- and four-way linking schemes. Since I don't have any idea why anyone would want to do that, I thought it better just to delete the e-mails when they come in.

2. I've never employed an SEO. I did some coding work for one once. It was for a Google-dance detector. Within weeks of completing the project, the client told me Google had stopped doing things that way, and that the dance-detector I had made him was no longer useful. He was quite upset, but when I offered to return his money, he would not take it ...

-djr

*kitchin* · 02-26-2008, 11:26 AM

The site that got banned did one of those things with 50 different versions of the home page, each with different keywords. I still get clients asking me about services, for SEO or whatever, that they have obviously read about in spam. Argggghhhhh!

*Andilinks* · 02-26-2008, 11:36 AM

Quote:

I'm just trying to understand why.

It is my opinion, based on several years of trying to figure out "why," that Google intentionally confuses the issues in order to confound those that would game the system.

I think the ongoing battle between web spammers and search (mostly Google) has made the internet a mere shadow of what it might be. But then that's just a continuation of the eternal struggle between civilization and chaos.

*JRepici* · 02-26-2008, 07:06 PM

Andilinks:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andilinks

It is my opinion, based on several years of trying to figure out "why," that Google intentionally confuses the issues in order to confound those that would game the system.

It could be just the time of year here in the U.S., but when you put it that way it suggest Google and the IRS seem to have this in common.

Kitchin:

Yeah, if I did stuff like that I wouldn't even need to wonder "why". Usually, the only advice I ever follow is what I get directly from Google. I have been, for example, using their new "nofollow" tag. Mainly to save Google from having to index a bunch of low-density/low-information-content pages from my site. Pages that nobody wants to see in their list of search results. It would really suck if they invented and recommended this technique, and then punished people for using it... But, as Andilinks points out...

-djr

*Randall* · 02-26-2008, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kitchin

The site that got banned did one of those things with 50 different versions of the home page, each with different keywords. I still get clients asking me about services, for SEO or whatever, that they have obviously read about in spam. Argggghhhhh!

Yeah, when people ask me about that, I tell them to find a good marketing firm. Especially when the sites are local (and commonplace) by nature -- how do you expect to stand out from all the other <insert generic profession> in your own town, let alone the whole state or nationwide? Offline advertising is still important for a lot of things, unless you're Amazon. Not every site can claim to be a "destination."

I'm not as pessimistic as Andi, but I do agree with the notion that Google's primary motive is to outwit the search spammers. Unlike email, someone is actually in control of this game -- and when they change the rules, innocent people can get caught in the crossfire.

Randall

georgeek · 02-28-2008, 05:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRepici

....can anyone think of any other reasons why the above article stopped showing on the Google index?

But it is in the index! As you can see here.

- George

*Andilinks* · 02-28-2008, 08:35 AM

This recent article posted by happety in another FQ thread may help. There are many reference links there as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randall

I'm not as pessimistic as Andi...

During the two previous times that I suffered precipitous Google traffic losses I made it my full time job to figure out why. Both times the traffic returned just as suddenly as it disappeared and there was no way to know which change that I had made (if any) was responsible for the recovery. I have concluded, based on my readings of the various forums and websites that address this problem that this happens A LOT, to MANY web sites, and virtually no one knows for sure why though there are many possible causes and if you are engaged in practices meant to deceive search engines you at least have an obvious place to begin looking.

If you are not intentionally engaged in deceptive practices you should begin looking for innocent practices that may be interpreted as deceptive by Google.

After that there is only patience. Sometimes it takes many months, sometimes less. But traffic may just return for no reason. Best of luck.