Joys of Credit Cards

[Del]

Okay, I'm in quite the cruddy mood right now, so you have fair warning. Read no further if you're one of those that doesn't like listening to Del moan and b*tch about stuff.

Here goes...

Out of the three credit card orders I've had for my script package (the only blippin thing I sell), two of them have been declared fraud by FraudWatch (some annoying little group at regnow.com). They always give some cryptic little reason, this last one was "failed hand review", whatever that means. This means I've made $100 (sell for $125, but they take a 20% fee), and lost $200 in 'stolen' scripts. This is too annoying to me, and as soon as I get home (at school lab, I really hate Macs...) I'm removing the credit card order stuff from the pages.

I guess the point of this message is I'd like to really un-recommend regnow.com as a credit card host thing. It doesn't seem to me that they are thorough enough in their validation checks in the first place. I know $200 may not seem like much (I know I could spend it in 3 seconds flat), but currently selling that flippin script is my only means of income.

Thank you, come again

Del

[This message has been edited by Del (edited 03-15-99).]

[Justin]

Hey, Del,

I had a high fraud rate with them for a while, and I had them set up an anonymous email block. Every single fraud order I ever got (about 10 of them) was a Hotmail account. I have yet to have another fraud now, and it's been a good month since I started that. I've also had a 50% increase in sales this month, so I don't think it hurt sales at all.

Just some info http://www.aota.net/ubb/smile.gif I plan to drop them really soon anyway, but that did help a lot.

Justin

[Deb]

Tis another sticky situation... I'll refrain from saying to much about:/

I've been hit with the problems from both sides with FutureQuest -- either the card was fraud and it slipped through for a bit, or on the other hand, the restrictions that are in place caused a good card to be denied *sigh*

So far Kagi's been pretty good about catching problems... they also have restrictions in place for anon emails in addition to making sure the physical address given matches the physical address on the card. If they don't match -- It is denied. This address check seems to have the best results so far but it does have its problems also. If someone tries to use their bank debit card (with a visa sticker on it) Kagi wont allow it to go through because VISA themselves have no record of it..it's done via a bank.

I think right now this is the "You win some you lose some" catagory... they'll be working for a while on finding ways to improve the system.. this I'm sure... but until then we can only 'grin and bare it"


Deb
p.s. $200 is a lot... any money you are planning on having that you have worked for only to end up not getting it is a lot.

[Justin]

I put a big notation on my register page about the email block. I also state that if someone has only access to an anonymous email address, they could email me. One person so far had a good enough reason, so I had him register with one of my email addresses and I forwarded him the receipt and registration number.

I think most people would understand why a Hotmail or Yahoo address would get rejected - it's no different than trying to order something on the phone and giving a PO box. A lot of companies want a physical address.

All in all, I may have lost an order or two out of it, but I've also lost most of my fraud attempts. The only attempt used all 9's for address and phone number, and I'd be willing to gues his credit card number too http://www.aota.net/ubb/smile.gif That wouldn't have gotten through regardless. I think he was just bored http://www.aota.net/ubb/biggrin.gif

The point was that if someone is really going to order something, they should have no problem giving their real, home email address. I mean, they are giving their phone number and physical address too, so why not their real email?

If you do that, you may want to put a notice that they will not be placed on any lists, etc. (if that's true, anyway http://www.aota.net/ubb/smile.gif). RegNow doesn't have this option publically posted - you just have to email Ryan and they'll set that up (took an hour and it was all in place). Just make them think you are about to leave due to a high fraud rate http://www.aota.net/ubb/smile.gif They'll listen http://www.aota.net/ubb/biggrin.gif

Justin

[Del]

Part of what really bugs me about it is how loose their physical address checker seems to be. On one of the fake orders the person put "Kings" for their street address and number. Big surprise that one would fail. Only one of my three orders came from a Hotmail email addy, and it was the good one (figures). Good for now anyway, the second they mail that check to me I bet I get another email saying that one is fraud too, and I'll have to send it back or something.

The entire reason I set up the ccard thing was so people could just get the script. Who is going to buy my piece of crap program if they have to wait two weeks to download it? Oh well, problem is easily solved: US Postal Money Order only. Probably never sell another one, but since I've only sold one so far anyway, not much is lost.

Del

[auteur]

You're looking money because the credit cards are fraudulant that are being used??? I was confused at first, but I think I'm catching on. http://www.aota.net/ubb/smile.gif

Why don't you keep the credit card script up and have a disclaimer that all credit card orders will be fulfilled when the order clears? It is a little hassle but I don't see why any 'respectable', 'honest' customer wouldn't understand. It's going to be the way of the net sooner or later.

Just a thought...oh and $200. bucks is $200 bucks... http://www.aota.net/ubb/smile.gif

------------------
Elizabeth M. Miller
Getting You the Attention You Deserve!
www.123marketing.com (http://www.123marketing.com)

[Del]

The problem is that the card company does clear the card at first. However, two or three days later I'll get an email saying it's bad, the funds have been deducted from my balance, and I should not ship the product. Well, the product is a download that gets taken shortly after puching the button. Depending on when the thing is purchased (or stolen, or whatever) it could be up to a month before I get the 'its bad' email, someone who bought a Perl script isn't going to want to wait a month to get it (I know I wouldn't).

Interesting (to me) sidenote, today someone bought the script, and wired me the $125 http://www.aota.net/ubb/smile.gif Genuine cash in hand!

Del
(won't be back in town til Monday)

[Rich]

If this company advertises that they perform credit card verification and/or have fraud measures in place to protect you, their customer, then they are just plain lying.

It is a generlly accepted practice and standard that any veification/fraud checks are performed before the transaction is approved, fulfilled, and captured.

Rich

[Justin]

For me, selling shareware, when the order is complete I send them a registration number. As long as I'm online, they get it within an hour of placing the order (usually minutes). If I'm asleep, they still get it within a few hours.

This way, if the order looks like an obvious fraud I won't send it, and I can refund the order before it can charge back. I also run to their site and make sure the completed order doesn't follow a few failed attempts by the same person.

Most of the time a fraud order is obvious, but not always. But Regnow does refuse an order automatically if the person tried more than 3 times and failed, and they do verify the address - however, since this is not done by hand, some frauds do get through.

With the anonymous email block and me checking each order for the obvious signs, I've been doing very well. I've had a grand total of 2 chargebacks. One came about 2 weeks ago from an order placed in november, and one was about 3 days after the order. Only the 4 month old order actually got a reg number, and he used a Hotmail account (before I had them put the block in place). The other one looked funny so I waited to see what happened - so that was no surprise when it came back.

Other than that, I refunded 2 other orders before they had a chance to come back because they were just too obvious. And all 4 of those as well as most of the obvious looking attempts that failed were using either Hotmail or Yahoo mail accounts.

I would suggest receiving an email when an order goes through, then email them the script (shouldn't be that big, especially if it's zipped). That would really help matters a lot. I absolutely refuse to let regnow give out reg numbers.

I do feel for you though - my second order ever was a fraud, and while only $24 a pop, I was highly ticked off. $200 - I'd go postal! But at the same time, I'd try to protect the script better as well. If someone is willing to pay $125 for a script, I'm sure they are also willing to wait a few short hours for the script.

I don't think that regnow is the best service out there, but they are working on their fraud watch system. They remind me of FQ - a smaller company, and they will talk to you if you talk to them. Last month they had a 0.4% chargeback rate, which is not really bad. 20% is a lot of commission, but at the same time I don't feel like spending the time finding another company.

One final thought: if you require a US money order, I hate to say, your sales will drop to zero http://www.aota.net/ubb/frown.gif That's the way of the virtual world. I've had one order by check (a radio station), and the rest credit card. People want instant gratification. They are impulse buyers. Give them time to change their mind and they will. Attention span on the net is lower than for people who watch TV I think http://www.aota.net/ubb/smile.gif

I really do feel for you, Del. I may not have a high fraud rate going, but I have downloaded many cracks for my software, a problem you don't have to face. In fact, I like one of the key generators so much that I sometimes use it to fulfill my orders! Much more creative than mine http://www.aota.net/ubb/biggrin.gif

My $0.02 (minus 20%) http://www.aota.net/ubb/smile.gif


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Justin Nelson
FutureQuest Tech Support