Should I have someone build me a computer?

[bellgamin]

A) For my next computer, I'm considering have it built by a local outfit. Not Dell. Not Gateway. Just a guy who builds computers to order.

B)I would appreciate your opinions as to whether this is a good idea or not. To me it seems like a flaming GREAT idea. What worries me is that most folks aren't going that route, so maybe they (you) know something I don't.

C) Why do I want a truly custom-built computer? Well, I guess I'm weird. That is...

1)I do not want ANY bundled software to come with my computer. I want to buy my own schtinking SW, and own the CD-Rom it comes on, together with documentation, etc -- all the good stuff you DON'T get with bundled SW that comes on a Master Disk. (E.g., Microsoft Tech Spt won't give me the time of day when I ask for help with the Windows program that came on my Master Disk. They refer me to the computer's manufacturer, who doesn't know beans, and he refers me back to Microsoft. Ad infinitum)

2)I don't want any lousy SW pre-installed on my computer (e.g., Windows ME). I don't want MS Office or IE or Outlook or any other MS junk that I can avoid. Neither do I want all the dadgummed MSN and other icons that gratuitously appear from a Master Disk and take me hours to eliminate.

3) Finally, if I have a HW problem, I don't want to have to call some overworked, underpaid Tech Support guy. Instead, I want to be able to have a friendly face-to-face chat with the bloke who built the thing, and is shop is just a short drive from where I live.

D) The local Yellow Pages list several local outfits that build computers to order, so I'm not talking about using some fly-by-nite guy I can't sue -- not that I expect that 2 B necessary. Folks are friendly & helpful here in Hawaii. :)

E) So - what do you think. (Take no prisoners if u think I'm nutz)

By george, I do hope I get some feedback.

Aloha,
Bellgamin

[janderk]

Great idea if you have some knowledge of computer hardware and are willing to invest some time.

I only order custom built computers at local shops, because I like to know and be able to select what components go into a computer. Make sure you get A+ quality of everything, especially memory. This might require to do some research.

In addition it is really nice to be able to talk to a real person when a problem pops up. Or being able to throw your box in your car and drive to the store and tell them to fix it.

Ask some technical questions and recommendations before you buy your computer. If you only get salesman talk go to another store.

Installing your own software is a good idea, preventing uninstalling stuff before you even started working with your computer. However, you might want to buy Windows 2000 with the system as the OEM version is less expensive. You can always ask to install it yourself if you want. Go with the superior Windows 2000 (except when you are into gaming or want Linux), but check that you can get drivers for all components.

Jan Derk

[Terra]

From experience, Micron and Toshiba make the best memory chips in the SDRAM ECC department...

Maxtor for IDE drives
or
Quantum for SCSI drives

Also, a good standby is IBM drives for either IDE or SCSI.

Video: Elsa Gladiac Ultra 'AGP' (fast, scorching faST!)

--
Terra
--a couple more cents for the till--
FutureQuest

[Jeff]

Great idea!

It is much more fun to spend the time to build (or have someone build) something of quality than to spend that time to troubleshoot later not knowing what anything is inside that "name brand" computer.[nbsp][nbsp]I can honestly say that it took me less time to build my last computer than to try to figure out why the modem stopped working which came with a name-brand computer which someone else had just bought.[nbsp][nbsp]And much more fun.

My only comment is that on Terra's advice I got a Quantum Atlas 10K II SCSI drive and it is excellent.[nbsp][nbsp]The IDE Maxtor which I also have is terrible in comparison.[nbsp][nbsp]I think that the newest IBM IDE drives have better specs at present if you must have an IDE drive (it is worth it to go with SCSI though unless you need a huge amount of storage).

[Terra]

For my Maxtor recommendation - this is *only* for the 7200RPM drives...

In my experience with building systems/servers - the Maxtor drives have always been a top performer which is why our DAS systems are based on them...

Also don't forget that I can tweak the IDE performance with the venerable 'hdparm' tool...[nbsp][nbsp]These Maxtor drives can definitely take the advanced punishment that I dish out on them...

Anyways, our MySQL DAS servers run on Maxtor 7200 RPM drives and that is the ultimate in abuse...

FWIW - YMMV.

--
Terra
--Don't forget that the chipset plays a big part in IDE performance--
FutureQuest

[0degree]

I always try to build my own PC's.[nbsp][nbsp]That's so I get EXACTLY what I want.[nbsp][nbsp]I don't need to sacrifice some choices of mine by ordering a system with preselected components.[nbsp][nbsp]From my point of view, if a custom system is built properly, it can be as reliable/fast as a brand name computer.

Several years ago, I ordered a Gateway2000 PC (before the company turned into Gateway) and told the sales representative that I didn't want a graphics card since I have an Oxygen card.[nbsp][nbsp]He said that every Gateway2000 machine must be sold with a graphics card so it could be tested.

I've tried both options (building my own and buying a brand name PC) and was happy with both but I ultimately prefer building my own.

One motherboard I highly recommend is the AOpen AX3S Pro although it comes with a built in sound and video cards (these can be disabled).

And if you are a gamer and have a big enough budget, go for a Pentium4/AMD Athlon with DDR memory and a GeForce3 based graphics card.

Tony.
- Currently, PC's should be parked in tiny hangers and not placed on desktops!
[This message has been edited by 0degree (edited 03-02-01@6:56 pm)]

[Justin]

Go with the superior Windows 2000 (except when you are into gaming or want Linux) I have to disagree on the gaming point. I wouldn't play games on anything BUT Win2k. Quake, Half-life, Unreal Tournament etc all run much faster under Win2k for me.

Regarding Maxtor drives, every drive I own is a Maxtor. Most are the 7200 RPM, but two are 5400. I have never had a single problem from any of them (knock on wood)...

As for the topic of discussion -- I've always built my own computers (except the laptop), as I've seen the crap they bundle with pre-built systems. Generally they come with a $3 audio chip, an $8 video chip, and other cheap garbage. They also never seem to bundle enough RAM...

Another point I disagree with is the P4 recommendation. Personally I'd stay PIII until a new P4 revision is released, if ever. If they don't fix some of the issues with the current P4, I would almost have to go back to recommending AMD. As it stands I much prefer Intel, but the P4 was rushed out and is missing quite a few features, some of which have been around since the 486 (thus most code is optimized for these things). A fast (1 clock cycle) shift register comes to mind...

At any rate -- I've never had someone else build a custom-built system for me, but if you know your hardware and know exactly what is going in it, and can estimate what the components would cost (so you know if you're getting a deal or getting ripped off), then I say go for it. Make sure they offer you a decent warranty, and you'll want to find out what would and would not void said warranty. If you want to add something later, can you put it in yourself or would you have to bring it in, and purchase the part from them? These are questions I'd be sure to ask.

------------------
Justin Nelson
SFE Software (http://www.sfesoftware.com)

[mike_w]

The hdparm utility is an awesome tool. When I built my latest linux box I increased disk reads from ~3 MB/sec to about 22 MB/sec. But use it with alot of caution. I usually use it after first setting up a system before I start to do any real work.

[bellgamin]

Soooo... would anyone care to recommend a good package (list of components) that would come in at, say, around $2000? (I don't need a monitor in the package.)

Boy, I'm enjoying this thread, and truly appreciate all the suggestions!

[Justin]

Just to throw in some brand names here that I'm familiar with:

Motherboard: I like Asus, Abit is good as well

Memory: I've heard Micron etc, Kingston is both good and cheap in my experience

Hard Disk: Maxtor all the way unless going $C$I...

Video: If you can get something 3dfx (Voodoo), I like them a lot... but they're out of biz :(

Sound: Turtle Beach; stay far away from Creative

CPU: PIII; stay away from P4 and AMD (for now...)

Modem: Stay away from anything "win" or "HSP" or "HCF" -- eg, anything cheap

Mouse: Microsoft Intellimouse Explorer all the way ;)

That's all the suggestions I have, and I personally haven't done much since the Voodoo cards were still being made and the 440 BX/GX were the top chipsets. I haven't messed with anything newer, so my recommendations are probably a bit dated by now. I stick by my "stay away from Creative sound cards" thing tho... :)

------------------
Justin Nelson
SFE Software (http://www.sfesoftware.com)

[janderk]

Below $2000 should be really easy without a monitor. Here are some links where I find my info.

Graphic cards:
http://www.pcworld.com/reviews/article/0,aid,41403,pg,2,00.asp

For processors, motherboards, hard disks, etc:
http://www.tomshardware.com

One question for Terra:
Why do you use Pentium III instead of Athlons?

Jan Derk

[Terra]

3 reasons:

1) No SMP capability
2) AMD is a good CPU, unfortunately the chipset never did it justice for server demands...
3) Limited choice of motherboards...

I would have liked to gone Athlon, but it just didn't live up to our expectations...

--
Terra
--I'll take a 21264 (833Mhz) any day of the week--
FutureQuest

[janderk]

I asked because I saw that pair (which I rate quite high as a host on reliability, but not on support) also uses AMD processors.

I guess the release (I heared this month) of the AMD 760 MP (multi-processing) chipset will boost AMD servers sales.

JD

[0degree]

Sound: Turtle Beach; stay far away from Creative

Just out of curiousity, can you please explain why?

Tony.
-I think they're both good BTW.

[lowe.rg]

Yes get one built, it's the only way to get exactly what you want.
I would suggest any of the following:

(A7V 133) (VIA) SOCKET A 266MHZ FSB / 133MHZ / 4X AGP
/ 3D AUDIO (5PCI/1AMR/1AGP/UDMA100/3DIMM) MAX.
1.5GB MEMORY / SUPPORT 4 USB / 8 IDE DEVICE

IBM (Desk Star) 30.7GB (7200RPM) HARD DRIVE (UDMA100)

Creative Sound Blaster Live (X-GAMER) (5.1) Dolby Digital PCI SOUND CARD

ALTEC LANSING ACS56 (5PCS) SURROUND / 6"[nbsp][nbsp]SUBWOOFER SYSTEM W/ 4 SPEAKERS

ATI RADEON (ATV) 3D 64MB DDR MEMORY 4X AGP W/TVOUT & VIDEO IN (DVD DECODE / 32BIT COLOR UP TO 2048 X 1536)

3 Com / USR V90 / I / v / F /D Full Duplex Spk-Ph Voice PCI Hardware Modem ( NOT WIN MODEM)

PLEXTOR 12X / 10X / 32X INT. / IDE CDRW (RETAIL W/ SOFTWARE) (BURN PROOF / UNDERRUN PROTECTION)

PIONNER 16X / 40X (SLOT LOAD) INT. / IDE DVD DRIVE

[Mark]

Tony,

Here's a thread where Justin did some explaining of the Turtle Beach cards for me....

http://www.aota.net/ubb/Forum14/HTML/000205-1.html

-- Mark
gamegoat.com

[0degree]

Thanx! This should be helpful :)

Tony.

[Dean B]

Tony,
If you can afford it, get the Cambridge Desktop Theatre with DT2200 speakers.[nbsp][nbsp]Tremendous sound when coupled with a SB Live 5.1

-Dean