Back Up Drive Recommendation Needed

[Cheryl]

I'm looking for suggestions on a means for backing up my hard drive on a regular (i.e. daily) basis.[nbsp][nbsp]In the past, I've used an Iomega tape back up drive which I had problems with.[nbsp][nbsp]Two years ago I switched to an external Sony Superstation tape back up drive, which I've also had problems with (Sony has already replaced the original unit twice, and now the third one is causing me headaches).[nbsp][nbsp]I'm frustrated with trying to depend on undependable hardware to back up the life blood of my business![nbsp][nbsp] For software I'm using Seagate's Backup Exec.

I need to be able to schedule a back up of 10 GB -- a full back up monthly, and a differential back up daily.[nbsp][nbsp]I'm open to any suggestions on hardware/software.

Thanks!

[Strice]

Well, I've got an anti-recommendation: Avoid HP Colorado tape drives. We had one here and it died after 1 yr 3 months, right after a REALLY critical server crash. I got some things back but lost a good month's worth of work. Sorry I don't have anything more productive but I haven't found anything either, short of CDs, which just aren't really good enough as far as time and material consumption.

Have you thought about looking into a redundant drive and something like Norton Ghost?
------------------
S.Trice
Sara's Chainmail Connection
http://www.chainmailconnection.com

[Cheryl]

Strice --
Thanks for the quick reply.[nbsp][nbsp]I have a feeling a redundant drive may be where I'm headed, but I thought I'd see if I can find anyone whos had good success with something else.[nbsp][nbsp]I have a small office network (one small server and one workstation) that I need to back up, so I'm not sure if Norton Ghost would be applicable.

*Cheryl*
[This message has been edited by Cheryl (edited 01-02-01@1:43 pm)]

[0degree]

From my experience with backups, I found the most reliable to be CD-R/CD-RW.[nbsp][nbsp]However, the capacity of CD's (660-800MB) might not be enough.[nbsp][nbsp]Why don't you look into writable DVDs which have just been released into the market.[nbsp][nbsp]Since the DVD media itself does not contain any moving parts (except for the "gel" that is used for the "brning" sequence), it could turn out to be very reliable.[nbsp][nbsp]Just my opinion :)

Tony.
- Remember 20MB HD's?

[Terra]

For a nicely priced and good performer drive, look at the AIWA NS-?? series of drives...

I used a SCSI chain of them to backup the FutureQuest servers awhile back before switching over to OSCAR backup system...

I never had any reliability problems from them other than one chewed up Travan tape...

--
Terra
--I still use them to backup my local LAN--
FutureQuest

[Rich]

I've always found backups to be one of the most frustrating parts of administering systems. Either a sofware or hardware change sends you into an incompatibility loop and then having to confirm backup/restore integrity of software/hardware/media...all very time consuming.

For the SOHO and just as an alternative to performing your own backups, you might want to consider a service such as www.connected.com (http://www.connected.com). I now use their service for all my home PC's (at 14.95 per month each) and have never been happier. Everything happens in the background, their directory/file database is efficient, only backing up what is needed and incrementally this takes only a few seconds to a couple of minutes to update the latest files.

Just an alternative option to ponder...

Rich

[louyovin]

PMJI: (caution, long winded post, ignore if you don't do Windows):
[nbsp][nbsp][nbsp][nbsp] We use a couple of hardware/software combinations. (Well, actually 3).
1. For data on the server, which we have isololated into a couple of partitions, we use DAT tape drives, I have two Sony internals (5000 and 7000) and an HP Surestor external (all are SCSI). They can all read each other's tapes. For the main server, I am looking into a DSL tape drive for better speed and larger capacity. Most of the data is backed up weekly, and we rotate 4 tapes. We file tapes when full as they are very cheap (4/8 G's are about $3.50). For daily backup stuff, we also rotate smaller tapes. For tape software, I use NovaBack SCSI.
[nbsp][nbsp][nbsp][nbsp] All users on the LAN have a "home" directory/folder on the NT server. When a user logs on to NT, no matter what system they are on, their home directory (on the server) shows up as drive H. All of their data files, on H, are backed up at least once a week. If they insist on keeping data files on their own system and don't back it up themselves, they are not protected. This is done with logon scripts, along with mapping of other stuff depending on their applications. Not all systems have programs like UPS World Shipping installed.
2. I also use NovaDisk (which we use to write smaller bits of stuff to a HDD, or Zip and LS-120 drives (I use the LS-120). On one system here in my SOHO, I have a pluggable SCSI HDD unit. I can plug in a hard drive and do a backup using NovaDisk for data and a program named BOSS for program partitions. The drive can then be removed for safekeeping. The pluggable units are reasonable, but can't be plugged/unplugged with power on. Like other things, SCSI is more expensive.
[nbsp][nbsp][nbsp][nbsp] On some[nbsp][nbsp]systems, we do this same thing but on permanently mounted HDD's, sometimes across the LAN. As someone else pointed out, HDD's are so cheap now you can make a mirror drive without spending much money. Our NT server has a second drive permanently mounted and mirrored through the NT itself (RAID 1). If the[nbsp][nbsp]primary fails, we can just break the mirror, edit boot.ini, if necessary, and reboot. So far, this has not been necessary. For the belt and suspenders approach, I have a second primary partition with another install of NT for maintenance. Periodically, I boot to it and run a tape backup of the main NT partition. So, if someone manages to trash the main install, I can boot to the maintenance partition and restore from the tape. I can also edit and fix the registry from there, if I mess it up. Note that NovaBack and NovaDisk offer an option to save the registry along with the backup. I don't necessarily tout NovaBack but that is what I have used for about 3 or 4 years and have found their tech support to be very good and responsive.[nbsp][nbsp]The only other one I have much experience with is Back Again/2, the OS/2 flavor :-|
I did try UltraBack but had problems (probably error in the cockpit). That is, however, a very popular and frequently recommended backup program. Note that you can backup files from other machines across the LAN if you map the folder or partition.

3. For application/operating system partitions on the client (W9X) systems, I use either Drive Image or Plextor's CD-RESQ. Drive image is good as you can specify a size limit to accomodate writing to CDR's. Ghost and CDRESQ will write directly to the CDR's (I think the new D.I. will also, but don't have it as yet), spanning multiple disks if necessary. I really like CDRESQ, which is Ghost under the covers, but it only runs on Plextor burners (not a problem for me, all of my burners are Plextor SCSI).
[nbsp][nbsp][nbsp][nbsp][nbsp][nbsp] NT has some tools that I use to make a boot diskette that will allow access to the network under DOS. I then run D.I. and copy the image directly across the LAN to the server, or another system on the network. From there I can write a tape or burn CD's. Most of our Win9X systems are about 600 or 700 meg's in the C partition and it takes maybe 10 or 15 minutes to make an image across the LAN. The application partition is smaller. This is very effective if the system's programs are not changed very often and most of these systems are not. The restore can also be done in a few minutes and you don't have to install an Operating system first. I prefer to make the restore from a bootable CDROM disk but have also done it across the LAN. It works like the system recovery disks that come with new machines. Drive image doesn't care if the partitions are FAT, FAT32, or NTFS. Both CDRESQ and DI include an editor so you can go find individual files and restore them from the image. You can save/restore individual partitions or complete drives. I don't think I would want to send a 10G image across a LAN as it really puts a load on the network (unless you have a switch) and people ***** because the networked printers slow down. I try to do images on Saturday or after hours. Since you only have one client system, that wouldn't matter.

Sorry for the long winded post...

Lou Yovin
Bungee jumping and skydiving are for wimps. If you want to experience true gut-wrenching terror, have children. --Dusty Rhoades.


------------------
Lou Yovin

[Cheryl]

Thanks for all the replies![nbsp][nbsp]I'm still open to suggestions.

Due to past experience w/ tape drives, I'm tending to lean away from them.[nbsp][nbsp]I do use an LS-120 for small back ups.[nbsp][nbsp]CD-R/CD-RW doesn't have enough capacity and writable DVDs with enough capacity are high priced right now.

Terra -- where can I find out more about AIWA drives?

Rich -- connected.com looks like an interesting option that I'll look into.

I do have an extra HD that I'll use in the meantime.[nbsp][nbsp]The problem is that[nbsp][nbsp]you can't schedule automatic backups with MS Backup, and Seagate Backup Exec doesn't support backups to a file (at least my version doesn't).[nbsp][nbsp]I just got a new motherboard/processor which came with Ghost 5.1.[nbsp][nbsp]I'm not familiar with such a program but will check it out as well.

Can you schedule auto backups with NovaBack?[nbsp][nbsp]Where can I get more info on it?[nbsp][nbsp]Are there any other good backup programs out there I should look into?

Thanks!

[Terra]

Ok, forget about the AIWA Tape Drives, it appears they closed their Computer Services Division... :(

Oh well, they are (were) really great backup drives that I still use today...

Sorry about the false lead...

--
Terra
--If you know for fact that you make a quality product, then why would you stop selling it???--
FutureQuest

[dank]

AIWA's always had a funny marketing approach -- high quality, low cost, low visibility.[nbsp][nbsp]I still have an AIWA walkman from '84 (pre-Sony days, I believe) that has been dropped on its head more times than an oiled up baby, and it's never skipped a non-digital beat.[nbsp][nbsp]I don't believe I've ever heard of an AIWA product wearing out, although I'm sure there is an example out there somewhere.

Dinosaur

[louyovin]

>>Can you schedule auto backups with NovaBack?[nbsp][nbsp]

Yes.

>>Where can I get more info on it?

www.novastor.com (http://www.novastor.com)

>>Are there any other good backup programs out there I should look into?

Yes, several. One that seems highly recommended, at least for NT, is Ultraback. Backup Exec (used to be Seagate's, don't know who owns it now) is also widely used. Back Again has also released a version for Windows, but I have not tried it. I used their program years ago and liked it. I am sure there are others. Win2K has one built in. One of the reasons I liked Novaback is the disk version and they now have the ability to write to CDR's, I think. I have not pursued that as I use Nero (burn baby burn) for CD stuff.

My experience with tape says that the cheaper drives are less reliable. I have had good luck with DAT, but would prefer DLT (Quantum), but $$$. The Sony drives have been very reliable (for us, but we only have 2) and reasonably quick. In a previous life, I used 8mm drives by Exabyte and found them very reliable, although spendy. Like most things, the price of tape drives has come down. I happen to think that DAT is a reasonable compromise and have swapped tapes around among Sony, IBM and HP drives with good results.
[nbsp][nbsp][nbsp][nbsp]I suspect that DVD will be the way to go when someone "wins" with their specs being accepted as deFacto.

Lou Yovin
(I am dumber than I look)

[This message has been edited by louyovin (edited 01-05-01@11:50 am)]

[dank]

I think Sony coined the name 'walkman' but the item was already around.[nbsp][nbsp]I can't find mine now to see what it says on it...[nbsp][nbsp]What I meant by "pre-Sony days" is before Sony bought out Aiwa, which I think happened a few years later.[nbsp][nbsp]My mom has an old Sony portable stereo that is quite a bit older than me, probably outweighs me, and has survived at least two burnt down houses!

I've always liked Sony, but my last two experiences with their computer products has far exceeded nightmare status.[nbsp][nbsp]:([nbsp][nbsp]I should also add that I have found the Sony AV receivers to be incredibly unimpressive, although that may have changed since I last listened to one.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled (and hopefully backed up) broadcasting...

Dvice

[Tibbits]

I was unaware tha Sony bought out Aiwa. I do know that the Sony ZSD5 is an excellent system with nothing like it made by any other manufacturer, and I've glad I found one second hand:)
They also have a cool new digicam that records straight to mini-cds which is an amazing idea.. if the price ever comes down. And Vaios are still the best looking notebooks around and some of the only computers or any description with in-built firewire ports.

[Tibbits]

I still have an AIWA walkman from '84 (pre-Sony days, I believe) that has been dropped on its head more times than an oiled up baby, and it's never skipped a non-digital beat.
I thought Sony invented the walkman??

I don't believe I've ever heard of an AIWA product wearing out, although I'm sure there is an example out there somewhere.
When buying my walkman some years ago, I was advised to buy an Aiwa since the quality was supposed to be better than Sony, but I eventually got a Sony because I sometimes listen to music at night through earphones, and the Aiwa's autoreverse couldn't be disabled so it would still be playing in the morning.. I found the service from the Sony shop (now sadly closed) to be excellent too.. I took it back because it had started to chew tapes and lock up, which is not what I expect from an expensive walkman I bought because I was tired of having chewed tapes, and they replaced it on the spot without even testing it. Try doing that in Dixons.

[YFS200]

I use a NT server for my home office network. It is the backbone to the network. It provides the "shared" drive for all the computers to access and exchange files(Drive S). And a user directory for each system (Drive N). All the systems are configured to save all documents to drive N. The NT server has a full setup with Norton Utils scanning and checking everything. Along with Backup Exec backing up every 12 hours to a HP 8100i CD-R.

A CD-R is way too small (about 1GB compressed) for a full system backup.
Most systems are 8-20gb. But thay are cheap and work OK. I plan to drop in a DVD-R when the price drops down.

All happends in the background with the NT server seldome getting toutched. I keep the virus up to date, along with using it to do full backups across the network of other computer. It runs 24/7. To make it a little more usefull, it runs the SMTP server, DNS, proxy, and SETI(see FQ stats).
Works well and has saved my tail a few times. I don't like NT too much as after about 20 days of up time, things start to fail and it has to be rebooted

The thing I love is the DupliDisk. http://www.arcoide.com/
It offers RAID 1 on any OS. At first I only had it in the NT server. But after a HDD failed and nobody noticed, I fell in love. I now have a DupliDisk in every system. Including mine.[nbsp][nbsp]Came in real handy when I changed over the Linux.
I disengauged the RAID 1 and only ran off of one drive. That way when I nuked my HDD (I did 3 or 4 times), I copied the data from the backup drive to the nuked drive, and start over fresh. When I get the system set up the way I like it, I sync the drives again and kick back on the RAID 1.

SCSI RAID is a real nice setup with hot swapping and everything. Add on IDE RAID cards take up slots. But the little DupliDisk just works with cheap IDE drives and only uses a drive bay.

I don't yet have a setup for backing up the Linux systems. Any suggestions? I wonder what will backing up across the network to NT will do to the permissions.

YFS200