NS 6 Final Release

[Bob]

Well, after a Long, Long wait, the final release (as final as any final release really is:P) of Netscape 6.0 has arrived.

It's available from Netscape via ftp or here:
http://home.netscape.com/download/index.html?cp=n6i

I am downloading as we speak, since I don't have the luxury of one of those High Speed connections like Deb, TeRRa and Justin have, otherwise I would probably already have it installed ;)

So for those that have been anxiously waiting it's "Show Time" for Netscape.

Have a Good One
Bob

-It's do or die time for Netscape, I fear-

[tedloh]

Wanna know what's worse?

I downloaded NS6 Preview 3 on Sunday :(
------------------
Ted (Chief Do-It-All)
Got2Bet.com - The Net's Winner's Circle
http://www.got2bet.com
ted@tygresystems.com

[jokesplus]

As a cruel twist, if you follow the link above with IE5 then you are still offered an upgrade to NS4.76 or Preview 3, but not final release.

Jarrod

[Justin]

A dedicated IE user's perspective:

Very close to IE in rendering, but IE remains my browser of choice. Some things I noticed on the Windows platform:

Good:
- They fixed multiple monitor support (menus used to come up on the primary monitor no matter where Netscape was at)
- Much much faster, both at launching and surfing
- Improved CSS and nested table support
- I like the new look

Bad:
- Serious memory leak. I lose about 1.5 megs to Netscape for each link clicked, and this never goes down, only up
- Still refuses to display a table that isn't properly closed -- one of my main problems with all versions of NS...
- My back/forward mouse buttons do not work, nor does middle-button scrolling (but the wheel does)
- It became my default browser. It made this decision all by itself -- mind you it did ask me first, and I said no and don't ever ask me again... yet it still did it. Netscape ALWAYS does this and I hate that.

On Linux -- very nice. Doesn't seem to leak memory so far but I haven't done much surfing. Mouse wheel support is excellent, especially considering KDE doesn't seem to see the wheel at all. Not quite as fast as 4.76, but not much slower either. Much faster than PR3 was on both systems.

The installation process on both platforms caused all kinds of problems. I first downloaded the full installation, because I don't care for their "smart download" thingy... doesn't work well in my experience. However, the full installer did not work on Windows and I had to try various options before it finally worked...

On Linux I had to choose not to install Java. With Java checked, it would install fine but would not run. I think there is a conflict with something on my system though, so I won't count that against them. The error message was informative enough to quickly find the problem, which is surprising :)

There's my review. It has taken over as my main browser on einstein, but for Windows they will have to do much much more to compete with IE in my personal opinion...

------------------
Justin Nelson
FutureQuest (http://www.FutureQuest.net/index.php) Support

[Mandi]

Would you believe I just spent (embarrassingly long interval) yesterday downloading 4.76???[nbsp][nbsp] Grrrr.

[Jeff]

Well, I tried to install NS6 Final, but after downloading the 241k Setup File (I couldn't locate a full file/set, so I suppose they've gone to the IE style of the small setup which then downloads the rest), the Netscape Setup Program just stalled.[nbsp][nbsp]I waited 5 minutes and then ran Task Manager (NT) and saw two processes sitting there, one SETUP.EXE, and one with a name something like NS6SETUP.EXE (or similar).[nbsp][nbsp]After 5 minutes, I shut down and got errors from Tablet (probably my wacom driver), Setup, and Dr. Watson.[nbsp][nbsp]After manually end tasking them all, I rebooted, redownloaded, tried again, and still nill.

So, for the first time ever, Netscape has released a setup which itself crashes :(

I suppose I'll have to wait for NS 6.1 when it's more stable before I try again.[nbsp][nbsp]Not willing to risk my OS for two browsers; that moment of suspense I'll reserve for IE. :(

[Tatu]

New look? Hurray!

I'm going to download for 4 hours later today... and Justin better not mention his 6-minute download time again. :) :P

[Jeff]

Hey![nbsp][nbsp]I think they tweaked their NS6Setup.exe because today it's not crashing... and the rest is downloading as I write this.

--ok, I couldn't take not seeing it any longer...

[zolbian]

I downloaded an early beta of NS6 a couple of months ago and I have to say that NS still has no chance against IE. I noticed that they did a better job on the CSS though.

In my opinion, one of the bigger faults that NS6 has is its new design. With this new design a webdesigner/developer has to creates a webpage that matches the NS6 design. A web browser should be designed so it matches all webpages. It should not have a design of it´s own.

Saeed

[Jeff]

I had the same thought about the "new" MSN browser which also has a distinct and bold design of its own.

--still downloading 6... wondering if a satellite dish and a swath in the trees would really look that bad...

[Jeff]

What an absolute piece of junk!!!

I finally finished downloading Netscape 6 final for NT4SP5, and when I finsihed installing, the program started to launch and then caused an error and crashed.[nbsp][nbsp]So I uninstalled, rebooted, and then reinstalled (this time, selecting "recommended" instead of "custom" with just a change as to where it would be installed, on e: rather than c: ) and again after a little more downloading to get that useless instant messenger which I hd not chosen the first time, NS6 crashed.

So my first and only impression of NS6 is as follows:

Netscp6.exe
Exception: access violation (0x0000005), Address: 0x60ca8bd9

So I would say that I now like Internet Explorer 5.5 better, and for the first time, it is much more "glitch free" than Netscape.[nbsp][nbsp]Maybe it's the AOL mixed in which isn't agreeing well...
[This message has been edited by Jeff (edited 11-19-00@05:09 am)]

[zolbian]

Netscape has always been worse than Internet Exploerer. The only (and very big) problem IE had (has?) is that it crashed a lot on Win95/98. But I've been using NT4 and lately Win2k and that problem has minimized dramaticly.

The thing that I (and rest of the designers) really hate is that every single time you create a web page it looks different in NS. You have to change a lot and remove most of the cool features of your site to make it look somewhat the same in NS as in IE.

Also if you have noticed NS is on its way out. I was looking at the total stats on one of the free counter sites and it showed about 80% IE usage in the last couple of months. I personally think that is great! It's a pain designing a page for 2 different browsers.

Saeed

[sheila]

IE doesn't run on all platforms. Are you planning to design your site for only people who use Windows?

If you write code that passes the HTML validators, it will work for all browsers.

[Jeff]

If you write code that passes the HTML validators, it will work for all browsers.

This is true.[nbsp][nbsp]It will work.[nbsp][nbsp]But as was said, most of the time it still


looks different

For example, it was (and possibly still is) difficult to get font sizes to match up exactly between IE and NS.

One that really gets me is that if you want to create a complex table for a wrap-around design, 99% of the time is is one pixel off in either NS or IE and you have to work and work to make both render it the same.[nbsp][nbsp]An example is the NS download page which looks fine for me in NS but is one pixel off at the bottom in IE (where the middle gray column meets the bottom is shifted sligthly).

[Jeff]

IE doesn't run on all platforms

Arrrg....

I just copied the installation files over to a different computer also running NT4 SP5.[nbsp][nbsp]NS installs on that one ok, but when I launch it all I see is the green Netscape powered by Gecko but nothing comes up and nothig is clickable... it just sits there...

So, I'm not convinced that Netscape even runs on all platforms now.

--did I miss something about it not working on NT?[nbsp][nbsp]I wonder if I need to update from sp5 to sp6 just to run NS?

[sheila]

Having read several of the HTML authoring newsgroups for a period of time ( such as comp.infosystems.www.authoring.html and alt.html and a few others ), I have come to believe that HTML was never met to specify the layout of a page down to the pixel. HTML has certain guidelines, and you're supposed to let the browser interpret the layout.

I don't know about css, however. Pehaps that is different.

<added>
Oh, and I went to the link at the top of this thread, to download NS6 and see for myself (I was very pleased with the last preview release), but their site is SO SLOW, especially for the information links, that I finally gave up and didn't even try to download it. Maybe another day.
</added>

[This message has been edited by sheila (edited 11-19-00@5:05 pm)]

[zolbian]

Sheila,

I know what you are saying, that´s why it´s a pain to make a good looking page that will work on both browsers. Users on all platforms are using IE and NS and that is the reason why you have to make page that looks good on both.

The problem is they even have different tags and options for different things (including JavaScript). Some things work good on one and other stuff on the other. Mostly though I have to say that it is NS that gives the &quot;non working&quot; design.

I have been talking to many designers and 95% of them prefer IE over NS (some even hate NS). I wish someone would make a browser that has the pros from both IE and NS.

Saeed

[sheila]

Users on all platforms are using IE and NS There's an IE port for Unix/Linux? Where? Please provide a link to it. I will be astounded to see it.

[Jeff]

http://www.microsoft.com/unix/ie/default.asp

--not exactly what you're looking for, but close...
[This message has been edited by Jeff (edited 11-20-00@03:29 am)]

[sheila]

Unable to wait for someone else to provide the infamous link to a *nix port of IE, I went searching for it on my own. Of the dozen or so links I checked out from a Google search, here is the best one I found:
http://cthulhu.ale.org/ale-archive/ale-1999-12/msg00130.html

Actually, our German readers might appreciate this link:
http://www.teamone.de/selfhtml/sfarchiv/2000_3/t20273.htm

It's kind of funny. (To those who don't read German, basically the first guy is asking where he can download IE for Linux. The first reply basically says, &quot;Of course there is no such thing. MS would be the last company to support Linux.&quot; Petra also suggest, that there are a few halfway decent alternatives to NS for Linux, but the only browser you can take seriously for Linux is NS.)

I did find IE links for Unix.
http://support.microsoft.com/support/default.asp?PR=ieunix&amp;FR=0&amp;SD=GN&amp;LN=EN-US
This is only IE 4.0 for Sun Solaris only.

[Hah, Jeff you must've posted while I was doing my search. Yes, your link is for IE Unix, but like I said, only for Sun Solaris. What about all the other *nixen?]


[This message has been edited by sheila (edited 11-20-00@03:40 am)]

[jimbo]

Sorry, but I found this comment so funny I busted out laughing, and got myself in trouble at work for &quot;playing&quot; on the interent:

So, for the first time ever, Netscape has released a setup which itself crashes
LOL!![nbsp][nbsp](And I mean it when I say it!)

:)

-jim

[Tatu]

*biting my tongue*

-Tatu

--
A staunch Netscape supporter