Netscape 6.0

[wolfstalks]

As I sit here "patiently" (NOT) waiting for Netscape 6.0 to be released, I can't help but wonder "IF IT's TOO LATE"?

Well, I have stated that I will give it one more go, and that's what I'm going to do.[nbsp][nbsp]I got just a little excited when I checked Netscapes FTP server and saw a folder named "Netscape 6", but that quickly turned to disappointment as permissions have not been granted on that ONE folder ??? :P

Anyway, as soon as I can get my grubby hands on 6.0 I will and I will run the H_ _ _ out of it and see what happens.
I am hoping that after this, way too long wait, that they will have something that sets the Internet on it's ears !!!!
(I just have to wonder if they didn't take a page out of Microsoft's Book on delaying software ?? :þ)

If anyone gets it first let me know where so I can grab it !!!

------------------
Have a Good One
Bob

[tedloh]

Wednesday, Bob.

http://cnnfn.com/2000/04/04/technology/wires/netscape_wg/

HTH!
------------------
Ted (Chief Do-It-All)
Got2Bet.com - The Net's Winner's Circle
http://www.got2bet.com
ted@tygresystems.com

[wolfstalks]

Darn It Ted, I know, BUT last week they said Tuesday, and I was waiting for it in the worst way!!!![nbsp][nbsp]You know, like ,well like something I can't mention in these forums[nbsp][nbsp]:P
Anyway thanks and if someone finds it before tomorrow let me know PLEASE !!!!!!![nbsp][nbsp] :)
------------------
Have a Good One
Bob

[Tatu]

Hmmm, I feel hyper-ventilation comin` on.
Wait... wait... Waaaaaaiiitt... wup, there I go:

Heueueeueueueueh! *weeze, weeze* Heueueueuehhhh!

I am sooo happy to hear this. This might give me a chance to change some of my evil ways.

Truth is, and I hate to admit this --I mean when I finally admitted this to myself I thought about it in shame for a couple days-- I have started to use Microsoft Internet Explorer more and more.

Wait, let me take a moment... ...you heard me right. Sometimes NS 4.7 just starts to act up on my system nowadays. I've tried everything. I will type something into the location bar and hit enter but instead of going somewhere it looks like my connection came to a stand still. Nothing happens, Netscape just searches for the site. So two or three (possibly 4) times every week I pull out MSIE. It works like a breeze instantly (while NS just sits there still searching). So useful, so new and fresh, so... so... so integrated!!!

So there. I said it. To all of you fellow NS lovers, I apologize. Now if only AOL/NS wouldn't screw this up by churning out trash.

-Tatu :)

--
Got brown paper bags I can breathe into?
[This message has been edited by Tatu (edited 04-04-00@5:52 pm)]

[Mandi]

No NS 5.0 ??[nbsp][nbsp]That's what came between the various decimal versions of 4 and 6 way back when I learned to count, LOL :D!

Patiently, patiently waiting . . .[nbsp]

[Justin]

Wow - I can't wait either!

Oh, wait... I thought you said IE6... nevermind :P

Now if only they'd come up with a Linux version of IE, I'd be happy (can't seem to get Netscape to work right for me...)

------------------
Justin Nelson
FutureQuest (http://www.FutureQuest.net/index.php) Support

[teach1st]

Truth is, and I hate to admit this --I mean when I finally admitted this to myself I thought about it in shame for a couple days-- I have started to use Microsoft Internet Explorer more and more. I'm also a recently converted ex-Netscape diehard. I just don't like to use too many Microsoft apps. I've used NS since 2.*, but I find it harder and harder to justify using the contraption anymore, to incovenience myself just to spite Gate's empire. Netscape for me became too clunky and unwieldy. Microsoft or not, IE 5 converted me - it's faster, it's cleaner, and it handles the new-fangled stuff beter. (Actually, my switch was helped along by OptOut (http://grc.com/optout.htm), Steve Gibson's spyware cleaner program, the running of which pretty much stopped any IE5 crashes I was having.)
Perhaps Netscape has to skip the five oh line just to open our eyes a bit, in hopes that maybe we'll come back to something one step ahead of a 5.
The Mozilla project versions were interesting and provided a glimmer of hope, but from what I can gleam from Mozilla.org today, while Netscape borrows from the project, 6.0 is its own animal.

I'm rooting for Netscape, but I'm using IE.

[wolfstalks]

Actually Justin, One of the things I have heard about "6.0" is that it will support multiple platforms including "L". I guess many of us are just waiting to see, and I just(in) hope that we all keep an open mind. :)
------------------
Have a Good One
Bob

[teach1st]

For all of you West Coasters and late-nighters, you can slurp release 1 of the Netscape preview 6.0 at:

ftp://ftp.connect.org.uk/pub/ibmpc/www/ns60prebeta.exe

It does look like the mozilla builds. After a few passes through my site, it appears I'm going to have to redo at least a few of my pages.

[sheila]

"prebeta".

Scarry.

West coaster...downloading...Now.

and surfing...


[This message has been edited by sheila (edited 04-05-00@02:37 am)]

[sheila]

OK, so here's one of the things I really like:
If you open a new browser window, but it's not maximized, it shrinks the web page to fit, so you can see the whole page. Neato.

Course, some things are a bit wierd. Not behaving the way I would like when I put my dmoz.org password in (visiting the editor's section of that site).

But, of course, it's "prebeta". Definitely worth keeping in mind.

<edit> Man, does it load graphics fast! :) </edit>
[This message has been edited by sheila (edited 04-05-00@02:55 am)]

[Justin]

Interesting... This thing is completely based on the Mozilla code apparently - looks exactly like it. It also has some debug code (if I middle click I get a weird message box)...

So if this is Netscape 6, well... I guess I'll have to play with it some more and see. I did notice it doesn't display pages quite the same way 4.7 does...

<edit>
I certainly hope they test this browser on a PC with more than one monitor, as they have some work to do in that area... Menus come up on the other screen if the browser's not on the primary display...
</edit>

------------------
Justin Nelson
FutureQuest (http://www.FutureQuest.net/index.php) Support

[This message has been edited by Justin (edited 04-05-00@03:51 am)]

[wolfstalks]

Ok, I finally got it,[nbsp][nbsp]Thanks for the UK link.[nbsp][nbsp]But I have already ran into a problem, I was trying to reply to this thread and I right clicked to paste something.[nbsp][nbsp]AND no paste and then I could no longer type in the reply box.[nbsp][nbsp]I had to close and then re-launch to get this in here.[nbsp][nbsp]FYI Netscape 6 is now available from Netscape's web site and also through FTP.[nbsp][nbsp]The Netscape 6 folder was made accessable about 30 minutes ago.[nbsp][nbsp]Hmmm, I have already discovered one of my web sites that this really messes up ?????

Oh, well a webmaster's job is never done ! :P

Have a Good One
Bob

(Only time will tell?????)

[wolfstalks]

I am afraid that &quot;They Haven't Gotten It Right Yet&quot;
I have been running Netscape 6 for less than 45 minutes and 10 of those were spent crashing! :(

I can't right click in composer and when I try to click on an image it won't let me edit the image?????

I am going to continue to check this out, BUT, I would STRONGLY suggest that only very Brave Souls try this.[nbsp][nbsp]I am afraid that this could be the death of Netscape, as any IE users will find this to be far worse than the 4+ browsers and will surely discourage those who were waiing to try it?????

Have a Good One
Bob
(Not a Happy Camper :o)

[teach1st]

On the other hand, I haven't had one crash during my current and pointless all nighter - and my system is put together with virtual duct tape and prone to crashing.

I think 6.0's java implementation needs some tuning...also, I found coookie problems on UBB's.

Goodnight, Gracie

[tedloh]

Glad you posted that, Bob.[nbsp][nbsp]I was halfway through the download.

[Dan Kaplan]

I think some Netscape group therapy might be in order on Bob's behalf...[nbsp][nbsp]All I can do is sit here and shake my virtual head, looking back fondly to the days of my Netscape bliss a mere two weeks ago.[nbsp][nbsp]Shoulda steered clear of AOL...

I guess it's a good thing I can't connect to the Netscape download page!

I'm not yet willing to call myself an IE convertee (still too many things about it I don't care for), but he Netscape landscape looks mighty bleak.[nbsp][nbsp]:(

It's probably against company policy to forward it, buy y'all would enjoy the email we received yesterday about upcoming training opportunities.[nbsp][nbsp]One of them was learning to use the internet, and among other things was learning the basics of Netscape Explorer...[nbsp][nbsp]I wonder what grade you get if you point out the death-by-firing-squad juxtoposition?

Dead

[wolfstalks]

I have experienced some problems with some java applets and intermittent problems with typing here on the forum.[nbsp][nbsp]My cookies didn't work right a minute ago, but they are now showing the light bulbs correctly????

I believe that there may be promise, BUT, that's all just Promise ?[nbsp][nbsp]FYI, when I crashed, I was referring to the browser only, my system, Win 2000 hasn't had a problem so far!

I am getting ready to install it on one of my Win 98 machines and se what happens there.[nbsp][nbsp]I am going to use the Netscape Installer on that machine instead of the full download from the UK.

Have a Good One
Bob
(We shall see ????[nbsp][nbsp]:P)

[wolfstalks]

Thanks Dan, I think that may be in order soon !!!!![nbsp][nbsp]:(

I am back to 4.72 after recording my 3rd crash of 6.0 ????

If anyone has a moment to try something, look at this page (it's one of mine and it has crashed 6.0 twice ????)
and see what happens for you ???
http://www.jaxfountain.com/southbank.htm
Also, it seems as though there is no support for realplayer in 6.0, at least for me, and I reinstalled R-7 to try and see if it would pick up the new browser and No Luck ! :(

Have a Good One
Bob
(Time may be running out ??? :þ)

[teach1st]

Bob, my 6.0 browser hasn't crashed yet. I haven't rebooted windows for a while.

Also, 6.0 loaded your page well, faster, in fact, than ie 5.01. Hmmm... I do notice a big hit on system resources, though. <edit> Win98 </edit>

The buttons on the left of your page look a bit odd in 6.0. The mouseovers work, but the store button is a bit larger than the rest.

I too have noticed the cookie problems easing with use. Maybe this thing just takes a while to warm up.


[This message has been edited by teach1st (edited 04-05-00@12:07 pm)]

[Justin]

I was going to post that 13 seconds seemed an awful long time, but I just timed it over here - 11 seconds on a PIII-558/128MB/Win2k... ouch![nbsp][nbsp]IE5 starts up typically in less than 1 second, and Netscape 4.7 clocks in at 7 seconds (still too long IMO)...

I don't know if I like the new look though - Netscape up to 4.7 has always followed most of the Windows programming standards, using the API to generate menus and so on - but now, my Windows color scheme is ignored, the menus look funny and do not even show up on the right monitor (I know why this is done - if the position of the menu ends up &quot;off screen&quot;, it corrects this so that the menu will remain visible. However, by older logic, right-hand monitor == off screen).

I do admit that I like the white and green striped design, and I could live with the toolbar - but not the menus (this is why it's best to use the API - why rewrite code that's already there, and that is guaranteed to work no matter what MS adds to the next Windows... multiple displays is one example - the fading menu effect is another - as well as the menu delay speed - so many things simply don't work on 6.0s menus because they decided they could do better :()

But I am ranting again...

------------------
Justin Nelson
FutureQuest (http://www.FutureQuest.net/index.php) Support

[Jacob Stetser]

They rewrote the UI code instead of using Microsoft's stuff for two reasons:

a) Microsoft cannot be trusted not to change something to break Netscape, and

b) Using their own UI code allows true multiplatform coding. If there were a decent Win/Mac/Linux UI library that would allow for easy recompilation for different targets, I'm sure they would have used it.

I just wish Mac IE5 would be fully compatible with PC IE5, except maybe as regards ActiveX/VBScript. But alas, MS provides us a mixed blessing once again.
------------------
icongarden.com/?fq (http://icongarden.com/?fq)
icongarden: making good ideas grow.

[wolfstalks]

Well Gang, At this point I have given up on 6.0, at least this release, the longest I have been able to keep it alive , on W2K or 98 has been 45 minutes then BOOM![nbsp][nbsp]:(

So, other than &quot;Attempting&quot; to view any new sites that I may do, which is scary, since it's one of my own sites that keep breaking it !!! :P I am washing my hands of 6.0.

To say that I am disappointed is a major understatement!!!:(

Have a Good One
Bob
(The grass is not always greener!)

[Justin]

Regardless of whether they write their own UI or use the API to generate it, they are still using the Win32 API - probably more of it the way they're doing it. I can create menu items with one function call each - their method has to trap mouseovers, clicks, etc (each requiring function calls, callbacks to friend functions, etc). I can guarantee that creating menus on your own requires a lot more platform specific code than letting Windows handle it... I still have to disagree on that point. Also keep in mind that the &quot;standard&quot; user interface of IE (on a PC anyway) is one of the things people like about it. All good Windows programs follow the &quot;rules&quot;, and are accepted, whereas programs which do not follow the rules are a lot of times ruled out by not MS, but the public. MS is not wrong when they talk about a &quot;common look and feel&quot; among Windows programs...

I don't know how many people remember the upgrade from 3.1 to 95, but I do. I remember that some programs took on the new look instantly, with open/save dialogs showing long filenames, menus highliting the selections as you hovered the mouse, the new titlebar/caption buttons, and so on. Then there were other programs which looked normal in 3.1, but now still look 3.1-ish (white windows w/o 3D effects, etc). These little subtle differences made programs look old, even though they were no older than some of the others. Those programs were quickly forgotten about. Had they used the Windows API, the new version of Windows would have made the programs look just like any other program in Win95.

And then there are color schemes. My scheme is not the default gray/white/blue, and I change it often. I also have scroll bars that are not as wide as the default. But Netscape 6.0 (as well as Mozilla) has the wide scrollbar, and grey colored menus... it does not adapt in any way to my preferences. IE does in every way...

At any rate, contrary to wolfstalks, I am not ruling out NN6 completely yet, as it is pre-beta software. Crashes are to be expected. But from a user interface standpoint, it does not have my vote at this time...

Sorry to get so long winded on this - I write windows programs (at least I used to) myself, and you would not believe what it takes to get the Win95/98/NT/2000 logo on your products. There are entire books on that alone - all just programming practice, standards, etc... I've never applied for the logo, but I do always try to adhere to the rules the best I can in my own products.

Just as a quick test, I changed my Windows scheme to an extremely large, high-contrast color scheme (for accessibility). What does Netscape 6 look like? Well, if I were one who needs the accessibility options, I'd say I don't know because I can't see it... eg, it looks the same - it's own fonts and sizes, its own colors, its own menus... ignoring my prefs all together :(

------------------
Justin Nelson
FutureQuest (http://www.FutureQuest.net/index.php) Support

[wolfstalks]

Justin, I haven't completly written off 6.0,[nbsp][nbsp]I just have advised any friends and family to stay away from this release, (I don't want my phone ringing off the hook[nbsp][nbsp]LOL)
and when another release comes out I will download it and wring it out.[nbsp][nbsp]I love Netscape and I guess I had a little more expectation from this release,[nbsp][nbsp]I honestly believe they would have been better served waiting a little longer on the release! ;)

Have a Good One
Bob
(Great Expectations, are not what Reality is built on!)

[Tatu]

Well it is pre-beta. Yikes, I don't even want to try now. Anyone have screen shots?

Well, the reason I am downplaying pre-beta is that Mozilla crashes on me hourly. Mozilla isn't exactly perfect yet (however I see myself using more stable versions in the future). If I started even trying NS6-prebeta right now my browser future would look pretty bleak. Hope for a recuperating NS would be killed. ;)

-Tatu

[Dan Kaplan]

I could've sworn pre-beta implied post-alpha...

Due Process

[sheila]

teach1st writes:
On the other hand, I haven't had one crash during my current and pointless all nighter - and my system is put together with virtual duct tape and prone to crashing.
I didn't have any crashes with it either. However, there are definitely some things that don't work right. But it's fun to play with, and I'm looking forward to their final release.

I imagine there must be a place we can write to to give suggestions or report bugs? Probably at mozilla.org, I guess?

[sheila]

wolfstalk writes:
If anyone has a moment to try something, look at this page (it's one of mine and it has crashed 6.0 twice ????)
and see what happens for you ???
http://www.jaxfountain.com/southbank.htm
When I clicked on your &quot;virtual tour&quot; link, I got the message that I was about to download a file to type &quot;real audio&quot;...save it or pick app?
I selected &quot;pick app&quot; and got the message that &quot;pick app&quot; hadn't been implemented yet.

So I guess the option is to save it to the hard disk and then choose and app and run it after download.

[sheila]

How is 6.0's startup time? I am not finding that it is as long or longer than 4.x (BTW, I had recenlty gone back from 4.72 to 4.61 due to stability issues).

HOWEVER, I did a custom install, and did not install the mail, newsreader, AOL instant messenger and so forth. I only installed the browser, java and shockwave. So, maybe why that's why mine is faster? Dunno. I just don't like using a browser for mail/news. I prefer to use special mail/news software.

[wolfstalks]

One of the parts of Netscape I LOVE is the mail.[nbsp][nbsp]So I installed the entire thing, also for evaluation purposes.[nbsp][nbsp]I have noticed that the mail doesn't check automatically and Composer no longer has a built in FTP client, which I found useful for quick changes to a single page???[nbsp][nbsp]

Anyway, as I stated earlier, maybe my expectations were way too high ???? ;)

But so far it's nothing I could recommend to anyone, who is not an expert and ready to deal with all the bugs that have surfaced to date!!!

But we still have a final release to come out and maybe, just maybe, some of my expectations will be met???

Sheila, I got the same message.[nbsp][nbsp]BTW I have installed it twice, once the full download from the UK link and also with the Netscape Set Up from Netscape's web site, same results for me as far as stability???? :P

Have a Good One
Bob
(Simple minds shouldn't have Great Expectations?)

[teach1st]

It seems to me that Netscape is taking a big gamble on releasing pre-beta (post-alpha, Dan?) with all the hoopla. That would tend to attract users who probably should't be using alpha/beta software.

On the other hand, they needed to do something quickly, and what better timing than this? Maybe their strategy is to hit Microsoft when it's down, so to speak.

fred, who has written the word &quot;hoopla&quot;[nbsp][nbsp]for the first time in his life - and, maybe the last.

[Charles Capps]

I certainly hope they test this browser on a PC with more than one monitor, as they have some work to do in that area... Menus come up on the other screen if the browser's not on the primary display... http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/
Go file that as a bug, so it'll be fixed.[nbsp][nbsp]:)

Netscape up to 4.7 has always followed most of the Windows programming standards, using the API to generate menus and so on(And further such quotes)
Yeah, but what's the fun in doing things the official way?[nbsp][nbsp];)[nbsp][nbsp] Actually, I think that this has to do with something about the HTML4/CSS2 specs dealing with graphic widgets, as well as the level of customizability that the developers want...[nbsp][nbsp]If you don't like the menu layout, the colors, or anything else, then you can EASILY change it thanks to the wonders of (TLA for their XML-derived layout tag language, which I can't remember now).[nbsp][nbsp]

I'm not going to bother with the official Netscape branded release...[nbsp][nbsp]I check out the latest nightly Mozilla builds every other week or so just to see if it's usable on this old system yet.[nbsp][nbsp]

[wolfstalks]

Thanks for the Input Fred, I too noticed the wierd effect on the store button, I will have to look at that????
I got your page as well[nbsp][nbsp]LOL[nbsp][nbsp]:)

Well I have 6.0 running but I am taking it easy right now, to see if it will settle down ?????

Have a Good One
Bob
(Have to be careful and not jump to conclusions ! :P)
[This message has been edited by wolfstalks (edited 04-05-00@12:06 pm)]

[Drew]

How is 6.0's startup time?[nbsp][nbsp]One thing I hated about Netscape was that it always took like 5-10 seconds just to get running.[nbsp][nbsp]Well, that's one thing I hated ;)

Drew

[teach1st]

How is 6.0's startup time? Slow for me. Shutdown takes longer than I'd like, too.

[wolfstalks]

I hate to admit it, but it seems to take just as long as 4.72 ???[nbsp][nbsp]And quite honestly, IMHO, 4.72 renders pages just as quick and seems to be a lot quicker on back stepping ???

Also, I noticed that when you have to enter a password to get on a page, you get prompted to save your password for that page by 6.0 (I like that) BUT after viewing the page and one link from that page and then hit back, you jump back 2 pages ???[nbsp][nbsp] I don't like not being able to hold down on the back or forward buttons and selecting where I want to jump to!!! :(

(Edit) Another 2 crashes in the last 13 minutes ?????
But I did discover the problem with the store buton, apparently when I created it, I made it bigger than the originals BUT I pasted it in place and it took on the default settings for the other buttons, at least in IE and 4.72 BUT 6.0 didn't recognise the resize down ?????

Have a Good One
Bob
(Getting Older doesn't help Disappointment :P)

I can't get the talk back to contact the server either ????
(Just another BUG, I guess they really took a page out of the MS Handbook on HOW TO release software :P)
[This message has been edited by wolfstalks (edited 04-05-00@12:35 pm)]

[teach1st]

For me, 6.0 loads pages (especially images) much faster than 4.72.
I'm noticing the weird back button behavior.

I'm also not getting new mail notification - it doesn't want to remember my e-mail passwords. The other password thing is variable for me. Sometimes it remembers, sometimes it doesn't.

It's pre-beta, I guess, so hopefully there's time to get it right. The form to submit bugs to Netscape returns a server error, though! :0

PS: Don't tell my principal what I'm doing...

[wolfstalks]

A couple of other notes.
1:[nbsp][nbsp]Look at Netscapes Home page in 4.72 or IE and then look at it in 6.0, in MY 6.0, the entire left column is missing, just not there ????

2:[nbsp][nbsp]Launch time for 6.0 on my machine is 13 seconds, AMD K-2 350 with 128 Mbs RAM Win 2000

Have a God One
Bob
(I can see a lot of Hmmm's coming out of this release :P)

[wolfstalks]

One more interesting thing I have noticed about 6.0 is that this is the first Netscape Browser that I have installed that didn't require re-booting ????[nbsp][nbsp]There also is NO uninstall option, either in the add/remove programs menu, nor could I find an uninstall file anywhere in the Netscape 6.0 folder.[nbsp][nbsp]So I went ahead and deleted the entire folder, with no appanent ill efects.[nbsp][nbsp]I am going to try and re-install 6.0 with fewer options, notably no talk back software, no instant messenger and no Net2Phone, and see what happens ????

Have a Good One
Bob
(Great Expectations, but little Reward ! :P)

[wolfstalks]

Ok, this will be my final word on the Pre-Release, which IMHO should be labeled as an ALPHA ?[nbsp][nbsp] (anyway this thread has gone on and on and on, as I have[nbsp][nbsp] LOL)

As I mentioned in the previous post I tried 6.0 one more time with fewer features and after the install, took off and 5 minutes later crashed, doing of all things, trying to read the below listed review of 6.0 ????

An excellent review of 6.0 can be found here:
http://www.zdnet.com/pcweek/stories/news/0,4153,2510507,00.html
And here is a review that addresses many of the problems that we, in this forum, have discussed:
http://home.cnet.com/internet/0-3779-7-1581733.html?st.int.3779-7-1581673.txt.3779-7-1581733

And this article, once again, raises my Great Expectations for what may come ? ;)[nbsp][nbsp]

So for now, I am sticking with 4.72 and will continue to plod along my merry way, waiting patiently (NOT) for the next release or the Beta, whichever comes next!

Have a Good One
Bob
(Raising the spector of Great Expectations once again!)
[This message has been edited by wolfstalks (edited 04-06-00@09:14 am)]

[sheila]

I am going to try and re-install 6.0 with fewer[nbsp][nbsp]options, notably no talk back software, no instant messenger and no Net2Phone, and[nbsp][nbsp]see what happens ???? I regret to say, that in spite of doing this myself, it crashed on me last night when I was filling out editor notes at dmoz.org. So I won't be use 6 in order to do my editing tasks at dmoz any more. I'm keeping it on my desktop, though, for further play and testing.

[Charles Capps]

About the install - it doesn't require a reboot, as no system files are planted...[nbsp][nbsp]Thus it doesn't require an &quot;official&quot; uninstall, even though it would be nice to have one there.[nbsp][nbsp]*L*

(I'm amused at the people elsewhere that insist that it can't be removed because there's no uninstall tool...)

[JoelM]

You can always go to Mozilla.org to get the latest &amp; greatest.[nbsp][nbsp]I've had a copy of Mozilla 5 (read NS6) since Late feb.[nbsp][nbsp]It's build 14 (or M14).[nbsp][nbsp] Grab the source too, or just keep up to date.[nbsp][nbsp]My M14 build is 2/28/2000 and the NS6 looks to be a march build.

[Stephen]

one thing i'd like to know about is the level of XML support in the Mozilla browser. i'm presuming build 14 is more stable that NS6, so i'd get that if i was to download it.

can M14 not only parse, but also validate an XML file against its DTD (provided it has one)? i'm only now starting to add XML capability to my scripts and a validating parser in the browser would be a boon to development. i know IE5 has some support (it can parse XML), but i'm not sure whether there's built-in validation. the version i have doesn't appear to, unless it's a secret switch that i can't find.

anyone else code XML? i know there are different java environments you can set up to do the validation, but i'm not really a java bean, so if it's built into the browser that would be something i could use.

[Charles Capps]

Mozilla uses James Clark's expat parser, which I believe is also used in the XML Perl modules...[nbsp][nbsp]I really dunno much about it, other than the fact that I can remember that little fact, but can't remember what I had for dinner....[nbsp][nbsp]

[sheila]

I thought that people interested in the NS 6 release might be interested in this article:

http://linuxtoday.com/stories/19792.html

[Tatu]

That article makes it sound all nice and dandy, but it isn't *that* simple. I don't think that the browser wars are over and Netscape won (unless AOL starts distributing NS and giving older and switches to NS entirely... then it would sound realistic). I mean who's to say the people at Microsoft aren't scrambling around yelling at eachother to work on their next release (with such features)?

The writer almost completely ignores the marketing side of it all. I mean look how accessable MSIE is everywhere. Basically, 100% of Windows 98 users have it and 30-70% of Windows 95 users have it. MS definately has an edge here.

Believe me, I would love to beleive that article. I'm rooting for the underdog who would win because its product is good, compact, futuristic, and feature-packed. MS wins because it has vicious teams and a limit-less amount of money to market it. I don't mean to start another Browser Brawl '99 again, but even MSIE-heads have to admit that Miscrosoft isn't winning because of an excellent program (no matter how you look at it) when compared to the up-and-coming 6.0 development.

-Tatu

PS: Notice I added a little note after the bold lettering. :) I really don't feel like listening to disturning calls in the middle of the night (probably the only time people like Justin are awake :þ).
[This message has been edited by Tatu (edited 04-08-00@10:49 pm)]

[Justin]

but even MSIE-heads have to admit that Miscrosoft isn't winning because of an excellent program I'm sorry, but I like MSIE not because it's already installed - I have Netscape 4.7 and 6.0 beta - but because I personally feel it is a much better browser. I personally (stress on personally) could not see using Netscape as my main web browser for any reason - not because my ISP put their logo on it, not because they are the &quot;little guy&quot;, not at all. I personally like MSIE because I feel it is a better browser in many many ways.

People like me will not be easily convinced - if you think about it, the fact that it is customizable (eg, ISPs putting their logo/graphics in it) does not make me want to use it anymore. I don't use any of my ISPs software (and this is DSL - I downloaded the actual drivers from the source rather than Earthlink's co-branded versions)...

The above is Personal opinion...

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Justin Nelson
FutureQuest (http://www.FutureQuest.net/index.php) Support

[sheila]

Here is another article on NS 6:

http://www.zdnet.com/products/stories/pipreviews/0,8827,221080,00.html

[Justin]

I have to say, as much as I don't care for Netscape 6, I really do like the Linux version... though it looks almost exactly the same, it seems to just work better on Linux (Gnome). So far it has not crashed, and installation was extremely simple. The only problem I'm having is Linux does not like the cache I am stuck behind, and I can't seem to view any web pages that are cachable (even in lynx)...

I suppose if there was an IE for Linux I would probably feel differently - but then again, I might still prefer Netscape on the Linux platform... It is nice having a decent browser - believe it or not, this pre-alpha/beta/whatever browser is far more stable than the Netscape that comes with RedHat 6.0 IMO (Netscape 4.51), and it looks better. Maybe its because the standards I am so picky about do not apply to Linux, and thus writing their own interface is the best bet on other platforms...

Anyway, just wanted to mention that I do like Netscape 6.0, and it is my browser of choice (so far) for the Linux platform :)

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Justin Nelson
FutureQuest (http://www.FutureQuest.net/index.php) Support

[Tatu]

Anyway, just wanted to mention that I do like Netscape 6.0, and it is my browser of choice (so far) for the Linux platform :) YEeees! I think we just made some progress here. :) ;)[nbsp][nbsp] :D

Justin: Please let me emphasise that I stated that MSIE was winning because of strategic marketing (in a little more complicated way). Just simply stated that when 6.0 (final, worked-on release) is compared to any version of MSIE (standard-compliant wise), NS appears to be a better program.

Never said I used NS because it was the underdog, had my isp's logo in it (although the last one was never meant to make you WANT to use it, it just means more isps might want to distribute it and therefore the non-techhead population would use it).[nbsp][nbsp]But of course, I understand your testy-ness to my comments. I *did* make some bold comments. (sorry, the pun made me laugh) And I wasn't implying you have been manipulated by MS in any way. ;)[nbsp][nbsp]

-Tatu

--
Man, I need to start working on my grammar. I'm starting to start sentances with conjuctions!

Edit: word &quot;grammer&quot;
[This message has been edited by Tatu (edited 04-09-00@9:52 pm)]

[Justin]

I don't even know the proper way to spell &quot;misspelled&quot; ;)

I didn't take any offense from your MS remarks - I agree that a lot of users use IE because it's already there on their system. But I did want to stress that I use IE because I like it.

I have found quite a few bugs with Netscape 6.0 on Linux - mainly rollovers do not work right. Interestingly enough, they did finally add link hover colors, only if you specify them in a style sheet. But I have started using 4.51 on einstien, as it's more stable - though 6.0 had better font rendering and a load more things that both worked better and looked nicer. Just the rollover thing (I think just about every site I mess with has image rollovers)...

Hopefully it will soon reach BETA status - I am starting to like Netscape, though I'm sure if MS would just make a Linux version or, better yet, release the source to IE (yes I am laughing quite hard right now) I'd be happy :)

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Justin Nelson
FutureQuest (http://www.FutureQuest.net/index.php) Support

[tattoo-vampire]

I'm no big MS fan but I have been using IE 5.x for several months now and it beats the pants off Netscape 4.x. I've installed the 6.0 prerelease - overall I don't see a huge decrease in page loading times, though.

Any Linux users out there, go to opera.com and download the preview of Opera for Linux. It's still pretty buggy and most of the preferences haven't been enabled yet, but this browser loads pages incredibly fast.