Burstmedia - Mistake to Join????

[MTDesigns]

OK, after searching and finding info on this AFTER I joined and got accepted, I'm now wondering if I've done the right thing?[nbsp][nbsp]The only reason why I chose Burst, is they had the lowest amount of required impressions.[nbsp][nbsp]

They just called me to let me know I was accepted.[nbsp][nbsp]They did say it was a slow period, but it should be picking up (thank goodness I chose a month-to-month non-exclusive contract.[nbsp][nbsp]I guess if it doesn't work out I'll just cancel it.[nbsp][nbsp]I'd love to go with Adforce or Flycast (more reputable??), but I just don't think I have the required impressions.

Thanx for opinions & advice.

Best always,

Joi~

[Jason]

I have several of my personal web sites with Burstmedia. At first, I signed up to have all of their run-of-network campaigns show up. But each month when I got the check, it would be for minimal amounts ($30 or $40 a month). After a while I decided to experiment and clicked the button (don't remember what it's called) that says to *not* display any pay-per-click advertising, but to give me *all* of the CPM run-of-network campaigns.

Within one month, the amount I was receiving more than quadrupled - I'm now getting $200 to $300 a month from them. And traffic to my sites did not increase at all - it's just that by putting all my traffic onto CPM ads instead of pay-per-click, I actually started gaining some revenue.

I've tried other programs - I"m very happy with Burstmedia. I think I'd have liked Flycast, but their program is much higher maintenance. With Burstmedia I just clicked a couple buttons to make it auto-select all CPM run-of-network, and I haven't had to visit their web site in 6 months or more. Flycast, as I understand it, you need to manually approve all the ads you want to run, which if you're anything like me you have no time at all to do it.

Good luck,

Jason

[cheatindex]

Wahoo! If there is one thing I'm familiar with, it's ad networks.

Burstmedia! is perfect for small sites. I once started out with them, and it is true that if you deliver less than half a million pageviews selecting only CPM banners pays off more, but as your impressions start rising, they run out of CPM banners to show, and since CPC is turned off, they show default banners that make you no money. Therefore, be wise before doing that.

Also, Burstmedia is truly the best decision for a small site. Unless your site gets amazing clickthrough rates, there is no other ad network that would be as promising.

Flycast itself, which selects only larger sites, is having a horrible time. Their default banner rates have risen incredibly, and it is truly a sad site for such a large company.

I myself am locked in a constant, one CPM rate with UGO.com which caters to gaming sites, so it makes no difference to me, but I still enjoy watching the business go round.

[MTDesigns]

Thanx so much for your replies...I feel a little better now :)!

Best always,

Joi~

[JoeRT]

I'm glad you're having such good luck with them Jason.[nbsp][nbsp]I've never received a check over $55 and I take almost exclusively CPM ads.[nbsp][nbsp]I still manually approve all ads that appear on my sites because some of them are either "provocative" or just down right annoying (one banner ad asked the question "Are you stupid?", others are so animated and flashy they're distracting).

As far as representation, I've had only ONE targeted campaign from Burst in over a year, and it only paid $4 CPM.[nbsp][nbsp]I did my own run with AdAuction and got a $10 CPM buy instantly.

For smaller sites, there may not be much choice... I guess $1.50 to $3 CPM is better than nothing.[nbsp][nbsp]But I'm glad I only did a month to month non exclusive.

--------------------
Joe Torsitano
www.weatherforyou.com (http://www.weatherforyou.com)
www.tiswest.com (http://www.tiswest.com)

[Dan Kaplan]

To follow up on Joe's point, most sites receiving 1,000 page views a day (a modest number) will net about $30 a month from BURST![nbsp][nbsp]Pays your hosting costs, but that's about it.[nbsp][nbsp]For comparative purposes, I scrapped BURST! in favor of "private" advertising arrangements, and that $30 increased 20x based on the same number of page views.[nbsp][nbsp]Ad networks are convenient, but not overly profitable.

(I bailed on BURST! when they decided everyone had to sign a new contract with some very iffy wording (although they assured me in private emails that it was only intended to be enforced in severe cases), host a survey, and complicated their offerings more than $30 a month could possibly be worth to wade through... :( )

Dparture

[Justin]

I agree with Dan (a first ;) ) - I prefer selling advertising myself. One of my sites does about 1000 views per day, and I make a lot more than I would with one of these programs. I used TeknoSurf (not sure about the spelling) with one of my other sites (500-600 views/day) and was disappointed. The only catch is you will want decent software to track views/clicks/etc...

------------------
Justin Nelson
FutureQuest (http://www.FutureQuest.net/index.php) Support

[Dan Kaplan]

I agree with Dan (a first ;)[nbsp][nbsp]) And here I thought we agreed on everything since I resignedly (sp?) switched to IE5?!

Deja vu

[JoeRT]

I prefer selling advertising myself While trying not to divert from the original topic too much, I have to ask... how do you sell advertising yourself?[nbsp][nbsp]May sound like a stupid question, but I've tried contacting companies and get no reply or "talk to our ad agency" who isn't interested in any site that isn't doing a gazillion page views.[nbsp][nbsp]Next thing I know they're advertising on a competitors site for the very program I was pitching them on.[nbsp][nbsp]I've had the "advertise on our site" and not one taker.[nbsp][nbsp]Ok, I'm not a salesman... but I didn't have this much trouble selling radio ads in a very small market (Elko, NV) for a station that had no ratings and had only been on the air for a few months![nbsp][nbsp]:P

---------------------------
Joe Torsitano
www.weatherforyou.com (http://www.weatherforyou.com)
www.tiswest.com (http://www.tiswest.com)

[Justin]

I suppose I have an advantage... I run a lil hosting directory, so each host who submits their plans to the database is presented with our ad rates, plus I send periodic emails to them (provided they checked the box that they wished to receive them). It wasn't difficult to get a few of them to buy ads, but I have to admit there are periods of time when there are no running ads (and then of course the "Your ad here" banners start showing up)...

For the most part it's been steady, though, and even in the slower periods I still make more this way than before. I think my rates are lower than most host directories, but it's been a while since I've checked around...

Dan - yes, I forgot you had converted - but I suspect my Netscape bashing had very little to do with your conversion ;)

------------------
Justin Nelson
FutureQuest (http://www.FutureQuest.net/index.php) Support

[JoeRT]

you will want decent software to track views/clicks/etc Hmmmm... like this software I found at a "lil hosting directory"? :P

------------------------
Joe Torsitano
www.weatherforyou.com (http://www.weatherforyou.com)
www.tiswest.com (http://www.tiswest.com)

[Justin]

I'll try to be more subtle from now on ;)

------------------
Justin Nelson
FutureQuest (http://www.FutureQuest.net/index.php) Support

[MTDesigns]

You will never be required to accept advertising for free. We may bring you an offer from an account that wants to test response[nbsp][nbsp][nbsp][nbsp] rates at no cost, or a not-for-profit public service ad, but the decision to accept that advertising will be yours. If you do accept a free ad for testing or public service, you pay us nothing.
You pay us nothing?[nbsp][nbsp]Shouldn't this be "We pay you nothing", since we're not required to pay them anything unless we break a 1 or 2 yr contract??

[Dan Kaplan]

That's probably a typo, but I did warn you about iffy wording in the new contract.[nbsp][nbsp];)[nbsp][nbsp] There's also that one about them charging you $200 if they decide to remove you from the network and their propensity to display mostly CPC and non-paying ads unless selected otherwise...

Dtain

[MTDesigns]

There's also that one about them charging you $200 if they decide to remove you from the network
I read that they would charge you $200 only if you had a 1 or 3 year contract with them and break it.[nbsp][nbsp]I didn't see any info that said if they decide to remove us that they would charge us!![nbsp][nbsp]Hmmm...I'll certainly have to have a talk with them when they call again.

and their propensity to display mostly CPC and non-paying ads unless selected otherwise
Who would want to display mostly non-paying ads? ;)[nbsp]

[Dan Kaplan]

Who would want to display mostly non-paying ads? Precisely, which is why their default settings make me wonder where their priorities really are.[nbsp][nbsp]Certainly doesn't appear to be with the sites doing the advertising.[nbsp][nbsp]There are ways to minimize the non-paying ads, but reading through their forums (password protected), it appears that not too many people have much luck with that.

I don't remember exactly how the $200 fine was worded.[nbsp][nbsp]It sounded like it could be imposed on anyone, but their explanation to me in email implied that was not the case.[nbsp][nbsp]Still, as long as you are required to sign a contract that could easily be interpreted that way...

Let me say though, that despite my comments, they probably are the best option for someone looking for convenient advertising on a small-medium sized site.

Dan

[Brian]

Joe,

What is the AdAuction stuff that you mentioned?

-Brian

[JoeRT]

They recently merged with/turned into 1MediaPlace (www.onemediaplace.com (http://www.onemediaplace.com)) and I haven't had a reply from them since (think my site may have suddenly become too small :( ).[nbsp][nbsp]But it is/was a place where you could put your available inventory up for auction.[nbsp][nbsp]Advertisers would bid for what you had to offer.[nbsp][nbsp]They also have a place where sites can bid for advertisers, kind of a run-of-network situation.[nbsp][nbsp]It worked great for selling inventory at a pretty decent price, and they only took a 15% commission.

--------------------
Joe Torsitano
www.weatherforyou.com (http://www.weatherforyou.com)
www.tiswest.com (http://www.tiswest.com)

[Brian]

Thats interesting, do you pay any fees besides the 15%, and how do you pay them or do they do the billing, and pay you?

-Brian

[JoeRT]

They bill the advertiser, take their portion when the advertiser pays and send you the rest.

---------------------------
Joe Torsitano
www.weatherforyou.com (http://www.weatherforyou.com)
www.tiswest.com (http://www.tiswest.com)

[MTDesigns]

As per Burstmedia:
No text on your ages or in alt tags soliciting clicks
Does this mean that I'll have to remove the text under the banners that say, "Please visit our sponsor"[nbsp][nbsp]???

Joi~

[sheila]

No text on your ages or in alt tags soliciting clicks To me, that says that they don't want you mentioning how old you are on your site. Probably concerned about excessively old or excessively young webmasters, but I'm not sure how. Maybe if you were really young (13 or 15 years old?) they don't want people thinking that they are doing business with children. Something like that. :P

[MTDesigns]

Oh goodness.......I meant to say......

No text on your pages or in alt tags soliciting clicks
!! ;)[nbsp][nbsp]
[This message has been edited by MTDesigns (edited 06-17-00@5:22 pm)]

[sheila]

Yeah, I knew what you meant to say. I was just funnin' with ya.

[MTDesigns]

hehehe...serves me right for skimming your response!!![nbsp][nbsp];)[nbsp]

[Dan Kaplan]

Hey Joe, sorry I didn't reply to that part of your previous question.[nbsp][nbsp]From my limited experience, there is no 'right' person to talk to.[nbsp][nbsp]I had the best luck simply sending an inquiry via the general contact form to a company who I knew advertises elsewhere.[nbsp][nbsp]Within a week or two, that message had been passed along to their marketing rep and I was contacted.[nbsp][nbsp]I lean toward thinking that any company serious about advertising in a non-network manner will not post advertising contact info on their site.

Dan

[JoeRT]

Thanks much, Dan.[nbsp][nbsp]Guess I'll just keep trying to make the contacts... at least for the month left in my annual.[nbsp][nbsp]Just frustrating to see my ideas being used on other sites (including the BIG ones) and they get the very sponsors I was trying to reach.[nbsp][nbsp]And it doesn't help when I've now found sites (yes, multiple sites) using the very HTML code from some of my pages on their sites... makes me think I have a site good enough to steal but not good enough to advertise on (which could be true).[nbsp][nbsp]:P

---------------
Joe Torsitano
www.weatherforyou.com (http://www.weatherforyou.com)
www.tiswest.com (http://www.tiswest.com)

[This message has been edited by JoeRT (edited 06-19-00@3:04 pm)]

[JoeRT]

Well I made .29 from Burst! Sunday (yeah 29 cents), and only 32% of the ads presented were paid... rest were the non-paying defaults.

So does anyone have any suggestions to my earlier post in this thread?

how do you sell advertising yourself?[nbsp][nbsp]May sound like a stupid question, but I've tried contacting companies and get no reply or "talk to our ad agency" who isn't interested in any site that isn't doing a gazillion page views.[nbsp][nbsp]Next thing I know they're advertising on a competitors site for the very program I was pitching them on.[nbsp][nbsp]I've had the "advertise on our site" and not one taker.[nbsp][nbsp]Ok, I'm not a salesman... but I didn't have this much trouble selling radio ads in a very small market (Elko, NV) for a station that had no ratings and had only been on the air for a few months!
I know the simple answer is "talk to the right people."[nbsp][nbsp]In radio it's easy to figure out who the right people are.[nbsp][nbsp]But how do I find out who these people are when it comes to the internet?

If 10% of the e-mail and regular mail I get had some request for advertising (instead of trying to sell me internet related stuff) I'd actually be making the measly amount I wanted to to fill in for my wife not working during the summer.[nbsp][nbsp]:P

---------------------
Joe Torsitano
www.weatherforyou.com (http://www.weatherforyou.com)
www.tiswest.com (http://www.tiswest.com)

[kickster]

I used Burstmedia for my soccer site and I was making over 300 per month. Then I switched to Flycast and it jumped to 700. but Flycast
start going downhill. Now I am selling my inventory on my own for low
$6 CPM. All advertisers are happy to grab as much inventory as I have.
I am sure if you have a targeted site such as Soccer, CGI you can easily find advertisers.[nbsp]
------------------
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[thor]

I'm coming in late on this, but there's some misunderstanding about how Burst works. First, I'm a Burst client, and receiving about 2,000 pageviews per day (actually less right now). Figure on 300-400 dollars income per month.

The reason why income appears to go up, is that the first while, all you get is lower paying run of network ads. After you've been there a while, and if they can find targeted advertisers, the CPM rates go up by as much as TEN FOLD. That's why income can go up with no increase in visits.

So, the more attractive YOUR site is to individual advertisers, the more money you make. If it's just a run of the mill site like thousand of others, no dice.

There's no question in my mind, after testing out probably every major ad. program accessible for smaller sites, that Burst is the best, the most professional, and the most lucrative.

For more information on such programs pop into http://www.work911.com/webhelp

[Dan Kaplan]

After you've been there a while, and if they can find targeted advertisers, the CPM rates go up by as much as TEN FOLD. If is clearly the key word here.[nbsp][nbsp]Reading through their user forums, non-targeted ads were the norm, not the exception.[nbsp][nbsp]There are some categories of sites that receive virtually zero targeted opportunites, regardless of site quality.[nbsp][nbsp]The same week I "left" Burst in favor of private advertising, I received my first targeted campaign with Burst.[nbsp][nbsp]It was still only about half the CPM of what I was able to arrange on my own, and it only lasted a month.[nbsp][nbsp]Pretty easy decision.

Dan