Software request --> Jed

[gtc]

Hi,

I'd very much like to see the editor Jed installed on Rasmus.[nbsp][nbsp]I tried to install it locally, but it needs S-Lang. The reason is that it has console-mode text hilighting and a PHP mode.[nbsp][nbsp]Also, its pretty small and resource-friendly.[nbsp][nbsp]IMHO, a much better option than gnu emacs (huge, no PHP mode, no color).

The website is: http://space.mit.edu/~davis/jed

Thanks for your consideration of this request.
Geoff
[This message has been edited by gtc (edited 02-20-01@3:43 pm)]

[Terra]

Done...

--
Terra
--I need to go buy a cow--
FutureQuest

[gtc]

Holy smokes that was fast![nbsp][nbsp]I hate to be a pest after such great service.[nbsp][nbsp]But, :) the version you installed is 98.7.[nbsp][nbsp]The latest version is 99.13.[nbsp][nbsp]I think PHP support is
not available for version 98.x.

Precompiled Redhat binaries (in rpm format) as well as binaries for Debian are available from http://cpbotha.net/jedstuff/

The PHP mode website is http://www.four04.com/phpmode/index.html

What do you think about a newer version?
Geoff (looking the gift horse in the mouth!)

[Terra]

I will have to pull the source RPM's and perform a full security audit before I will allow external packages in the core...

This could take me up to two weeks to perform (or more) as my plate is pretty full right now and auditing code the Jed code is not on that list...

However, you can try to perform a local install into your account...[nbsp][nbsp]I used to do this on other hosts that had brain damaged OS's like IRIX (iccckk) with sysAdmins that didn't really give a hoot...

One more note - if you are looking for PHP syntax highlighting, then give 'mcedit' a spin...[nbsp][nbsp]It's a quick and dirty editor that I use a lot...

My apologies for the scrutiny, but external RPM's are the perfect vehicle for trojan horses and whatnot...[nbsp][nbsp]Even if it was built by the software author themself - that doesn't mean that they aren't runnin a vulnerable version of WU-FTPD / ProFTPd / BIND / etc and had the packages switched...[nbsp][nbsp]I've seen it happen one too many times...

--
Terra
--Knock Knock.[nbsp][nbsp]Who is it?[nbsp][nbsp]Land Shark with a candygram!--
FutureQuest

[Terra]

I just caught on that you already tried a local install...

Yeah, S-Lang is a mixed bag of nuts with lobotomies from one version to the next...[nbsp][nbsp]I have to grapple with it myself from time to time when building Midnight Commander...

What I will do is load the S-Lang development[nbsp][nbsp]libraries up on Rasmus, and you should be able to link against it then...

--
Terra
--It's not only a dairy treat, but also a floor wax--
FutureQuest

[gtc]

Terra,

Thanks again for the quick responses.[nbsp][nbsp]I'll try the local compile again with the S-Lang libs you installed.[nbsp][nbsp]

I can fully understand your auditing procedures (after all, I use OpenBSD for my unix-like boxen!).

Are you doing everything RPM for easy deinstall/upgrades across the board (as opposed to source tarballs)?

I'll give mcedit a spin.[nbsp][nbsp]I see you can set it to emacs keybindings, which is a must for me (but is a PITA when I type ^E to go to the end of the line in MS Word!).

Geoff

[gtc]

Ok -- still no go on the recompile because you have slang-devel-1.2.2-5; jed says it needs 1.3.11 or better.[nbsp][nbsp]Redhat.com has slang-devel-1.4.1-5 available:

ftp://ftp.redhat.com/pub/redhat/redhat-7.0/i386/RedHat/RPMS/slang-devel-1.4.1-5.i386.rpm

Thanks again,
Geoff

[Justin]

I used to use the Midnight Commander's text editor exclusively, but for the last month I've been stuck on a machine without mcedit. I've been using vim, and it hilites PHP code quite nicely. Unlike mcedit, it is even aware of escaped quotes, and it hilites all PHP built-in functions. Just use </font><font face="Courier" size="3">:syntax on</font><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">, or put </font><font face="Courier" size="3">syntax on</font><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2"> in your .vimrc file.

It was hard getting used to vim, but I find it to be quite a powerful editor now (I never was into the vi vs emacs thing before, but I now see what a real text editor is all about ;) )

I just realized, on the SIX server at least, vim 5.3 is installed and doesn't seem to do PHP hiliting, nor does it do color hiliting in general (just bold and underline). On the other machine (non-FQ), we're at version 5.6... I don't know what would be on RASMUS, but it's probably newer. I also noticed none of my own systems seem to have it installed at all...

Anyway, hope this helps.

------------------
Justin Nelson
SFE Software (http://www.sfesoftware.com)

[Terra]

For core related GNU utilities like this, I keep it stock RedHat-6.2 as this helps tremendously with keeping all of the servers in alignment...[nbsp][nbsp]The RPM's I install are from the Update pool, and if not exist - Stock pool...[nbsp][nbsp]I ensure md5 and pgp checksums before any installation...

I have my hands full enough with my all of my custom builds with the Kernel / Apache / PHP / Perl / DNS / QMAIL / etc / etc / etc....

RedHat-7.0 won't work on our servers for 3 reasons:
1) incompatible glibc library
2) (what were they thinking) gcc compiler that is also not binary compatible...
3) I'm not even crazy enough to attempt it...

For production use - RH-6.2 has proven to be outstanding in utility stability...

Due to the issues that have arisen - I'm afraid that I am going to have to deny the updated 'Jed' request (in the core) as it will deviate further from the core of others than I'm willing to go...[nbsp][nbsp]Many utilities are dependent on the S-Lang libraries and updating it will most likely cause breakage - which causes a domino effect of tracking all dependent programs down and recompiling them (insert long endless circle of madness here)...

Since your problem is S-Lang, then why don't you go ahead and download the correct version and compile that locally yourself then link to that local copy...[nbsp][nbsp]With Midnight Commander on IRIX, I just statically linked them together, while still dynamically linking to the server C library...

Hope this helps, as our servers _can_ do what you desire - just not directly from the core...

Justin, I can never get into a 'vi' or 'emacs' holy war as I choose abstinence from both of those mind numbing play twister on the keyboard style macro'd megalomaniac editors...[nbsp][nbsp]Personally - I'm a point'n'click kinda guy... :P

--
Terra
--How far would you go for a million dollars?--
FutureQuest

[jimbo]

I was talking to the VALinux people at the Linux World Expo in NYC a few weeks ago, and I asked why they weren't shipping systems w/ RedHat 7.0 - the guy laughed and said that RH7.0 is one of the buggiest, unstable Linux dist's out there.[nbsp][nbsp]He said that many hardware vendors (such as VALinux) are po'd that they released 7.0, because they took all the glibc &amp; gcc stuff out of the development tree and packaged them up as new and stable, which it wasn't.

We had upgraded to RH7.0 @ work a few months ago - and I could never get Linuxconf to work right.[nbsp][nbsp]It would do what it was supposed to, but everytime I tried getting out of it, it would attempt to re-mount the CD-ROM (?), and would mess up all the filesystems in the process - as well as screwing with permissions.[nbsp][nbsp]Basically, I had to re-boot the server everytime I tried to use Linuxconf to do something.[nbsp][nbsp]Now I just leave it running all the time on alt-F5 ;) .[nbsp][nbsp]And I installed Webmin (ick).

Yeah, so judging by my experiences and by what I've heard people say, I really hope FQuest doesn't go to RedHat7.0 anytime soon.

-jim

[gtc]

Ok, local copy of Jed is up, running, and in beautiful color with PHP indenting and syntax hilighting![nbsp][nbsp]The trick was to ln -s slang to slang-1.4.3 in the ../ directory from the jed source.[nbsp][nbsp]Compiled great and installed fine after setting my paths and local variables properly.

I've tried to get my brain (and fingers) around vi/vim, but can't.[nbsp][nbsp]I'm wrecked by emacs now, but luckily I like it![nbsp][nbsp]Good old escape meta alt[nbsp][nbsp]control shift (but, with Jed, at least not eighty megs and constantly swapping :) ).

I've been a bit discouraged with the recent trends in the Linux world.[nbsp][nbsp]I started out as a linux zealot, but have since become a confirmed *BSD snob.[nbsp][nbsp]I find the BSD's to take a bit more rational approach to releases and internal consistency.

IMHO, redhat has done some increadibly dim things re their version 7 release.[nbsp][nbsp]If I went back to Linux, I'd probably go with Debian or Slackware.

There, now I've committed three cardinal sins--started a vi vs. emacs debate, distro bashing, AND an OS religious war! :)

Geoff
[This message has been edited by gtc (edited 02-20-01@8:53 pm)]

[sheila]

I'll get the popcorn.

[Terra]

Ok, my personal 'quick' views:

Editor
vi vs. emacs: I choose neither and have the common belief that all *nix/Linux CLI editors bite.

Distro
RH-6.2: provides the most bang for the bug and has held up well in heavy production usage

RH-7.0: most likely their Planning/Design meetings consisted of Shrooms and Tequila

SlackWare: very old school - very difficult to maintain across a server farm

Debian: slow to update and usually a generation behind

Suse: No first hand knowledge other than watching them struggle with ReiserFS

OS:
Linux: freedom of expression and is enjoying a very rapid evolution in the software and capability areas...[nbsp][nbsp]Very rich in documentation and support that far exceeds the *BSD arena...[nbsp][nbsp]Linux 2.4.x is a year too late and 2.2.x caused us nothing but grief with countless SMP and VM layer problems...

OpenBSD: Feels like you are spelunkering through a twisting array of dark and deep catacombs...[nbsp][nbsp]It is by far my favorite of the *BSD offerings especially when you dive down into the IPSec and IPFilter layers...[nbsp][nbsp]If you value the security of OpenBSD, then you pretty much stick to the default base system and make the best of it...[nbsp][nbsp]The slowest of all the listed OS's, but that is the price you pay for analistic correctness...

FreeBSD: Not as constrained as OpenBSD, has an *awesome* TCP/IP stack and a very robust VM and fork/exec layer...[nbsp][nbsp]Some parts of that I grafted into Linux which helped to solve many of our SMP contention problems...[nbsp][nbsp]Documentation is out there, if you look in the right places...[nbsp][nbsp]It's software capabilities is impressive as it's Ports branch increases...

--
Terra
--I can assure you that penguins are not always cute and cuddly--
FutureQuest

[heath]

A series of dumb questions:

1. Do you guys **REALLY** use an editor on a remote machine to do extensive work?

I find that even on my ISDN line that attempting to do anything productive with VIM when logged into FQ is a nightmare.

What if you lose your phone connection in the middle of an edit?

This seems like the craziest thing I've ever heard, but I could be missing something.

2. Terra wrote: vi vs. emacs: I choose neither and have the common belief that all *nix/Linux CLI editors bite.

Curious what this leaves as your choices?

Best I can tell, all the nix based editors are CLI based.[nbsp][nbsp]Curious what your fav editing enviorment is.

My favorite editing enviornment is **NONE** and I've tried to learn to be equally effecient in all *nix based editors because you never know what will or won't be installed on a machine.

As far as Emacs goes, I feel like Richard Stallman and half the universe is telling ONE BIG, REALLY FUNNY JOKE, and I'm not gonna understand the punch-line.

In other words, much like a teen-age girl without the latest Backstreet Boy's CD --

I FEEL EXTREMELY LEFT OUT.

Heath
(been through the emacs tutorial twice and still not aroused by its so-called beauty)
[This message has been edited by heath (edited 02-22-01@09:28 am)]

[gtc]

For my part:
(1) Yes, I do a bit of my editing remotely.[nbsp][nbsp]

I haven't found a program I really like to do it locally.[nbsp][nbsp]Of of the PHP editors, PHPed might do it, but it's too unstable now--see http://www.soysal.com/PHPEd.[nbsp][nbsp]I like HomeSite, but I wish it had better remote file transfer abilities--I haven't figured out how its comlicated project stuff works.

Dreamweaver3 (have not tried DW4 yet) is pretty nice for a WYSIWYG (sort-of) editor, but can't do PHP too well (at least as far as I've seen).

Latency is an issue for editing remotely, and I've had my share of irritation with it.[nbsp][nbsp]I have a wireless broadband connection (sprintbbd), and latency can really be a problem with these connections, but Sprint has done a good of getting it lower recently (~100ms to FQ).[nbsp][nbsp]My main annoyance now is jitter--the variation in latency from packet to packet.[nbsp][nbsp]This causes a kind of irregular stutter response across the network, but recently this too has improved for me.

Anything more than 200ms is horrible interactively.[nbsp][nbsp]Take a look at http://www.stuartcheshire.org/papers/LatencyQuest.html (no relation :) )

As for disconnects, they don't happen often for me (I used OpenSSH to connect).[nbsp][nbsp]And I save often ;)[nbsp][nbsp].

(2) I'd be interested in Terra's choice of GUI editors as well.[nbsp][nbsp](I'll listen to anyone who can hack parts of the FreeBSD VM subsystem into the Linux kernel on a production box!)

As far as emacs go, I like xemacs and jed, so can't speak to the RMS thing.[nbsp][nbsp]The trick with emacs is to get the keyboard commands to become second nature, and then you're in good shape.[nbsp][nbsp]Makes it easier that bash, lynx, and most other unix-based programs recognize these keystrokes as well and will do the Right Thing (TM) (except that ****ed pico!).[nbsp][nbsp]^a, ^a, ^k etc. can be your friend!

Also, when set up correctly, emacs does a pretty good job at auto-indentation with C, perl, java (JDE is great), etc.

The emacs tutorial is lame.[nbsp][nbsp]I remember trying to follow it many times and quitting.[nbsp][nbsp]What I did was just use the commands summarized in ORA's Linux in a Nutshell and get working on some editing while learning features as I went along.[nbsp][nbsp]The info pages have good, um, info as well.

But don't let me tell you what to use.[nbsp][nbsp]Use what you like, and have fun![nbsp][nbsp]There's certainly no &quot;morally correct&quot; editor, so let me covet my xemacs/jed and I won't begrudge your UltraEdit.

Geoff
[This message has been edited by gtc (edited 02-22-01@2:38 pm)]

[heath]

gtc,

I like to get the opinions of those that have invested a lot of time in learning more than one editor.

I was curions if maybe I was missing something as sshing into my FQ server and editing away is something I'd only do in an emergency.

On Windows:

I literally believe I've tried everything imaginable, then some.

The BEST solution for someone that wants to edit their remote site live and use VIM or e-macs is to get one of the shareware programs that maps a virtual drive on your win machine to an ftp directory on your site. (vim and emacs on windows doesn't have any sort of sane ftp support that I could uncover)

I used FTPNetDrive (if memory serves) -- My site was basically mapped to the &quot;e&quot; drive in windows.[nbsp][nbsp]I could then open and write to the site just like I was using VIM on the FQ server, only no fear of losing connection, waiting 10 minutes for what I typed to appear, etc.

Of all the windows editors I've used, there is one that is literally heads and shoulders above the rest:

Visual Slick Edit.

I've heard the Linux version is horrid, but this one stands heads and shoulders above the rest.[nbsp][nbsp]In this case, it isn't a holy war of which editor one prefers, Visual Slick Edit Pro is just simply the best windows based text editor I've seen.

Its also expensive.

At the end of the day, I paid 39 bucks to use UltraEdit and sometimes if I get fed up its HTMLKit.

Still, I feel like there is some hidden, undeniable beauty in Emacs -- if I could just find it, grasp it and learn to love it I wouldn't feel so left out when people go to war over which editor is the best.

In any event, I agree that Linux In a Nutshell is a great reference for Emacs and I appreciate you sharing your thoughts on jed, Emacs, et al.