finally - design appears to work

[tedloh]

Ok.[nbsp][nbsp]Any of you with both Netscape and IE, can you please try:

http://www.tygresystems.com/proc.php3?id=testlast.html

and tell me if it looks okay?

Links are for the most part not yet working, and I know the fonts are different (beats me, but Netscape doesn't like my style sheets).[nbsp][nbsp]This is only an overall design test.

Thanks in advance :)
------------------
Ted (Chief Do-It-All)
Tygre Systems Co Ltd
Bangkok, Thailand, Land of Smiles :) :)
http://www.tygresystems.com (work in progress)
ted@tygresystems.com

[sheila]

Looks good to me, ted. I checked in both NS 4.61 and IE 4.72. I especially like the fact that the page seems to scale well. I'm only on a 600x800 res screen, but I don't have to have the windows maximized. I can narrow them down to only about 3/4 of my screen and the colums and layout still look great.

[tedloh]

Thanks, Sheila.[nbsp][nbsp]It's that scaling that took so much time, I almost reverted to frames (lame), and even though of just doing the 600 pixel bit and getting it over with.[nbsp][nbsp]But I hated to give up on what appeared to be a much more flexible layout.

I think it's still kind of a patch-up job - but it works, at least for now.[nbsp][nbsp]If you or anyone else takes a good look through the source code, you'll find at least one glaring "Huh???" in there! :)

------------------
Ted (Chief Do-It-All)
Tygre Systems Co Ltd
Bangkok, Thailand, Land of Smiles :) :)
http://www.tygresystems.com (work in progress)
ted@tygresystems.com

[Armand]

Nice Ted![nbsp][nbsp]Looks good on my Netscape... though I see what you mean about the stylesheets.[nbsp][nbsp](That's why I avoid in my new design).

I know you've probably gone through some changes and such... so I hate to mention anything.[nbsp][nbsp]How about using like white or something for the mouse over button text?[nbsp][nbsp]Using left and right aligned items and then tossing in centered items just moves the eye to much back and forth, no?

Sorry don't mean to nit pick or anything.[nbsp][nbsp]Think overall it's an excellent design.[nbsp][nbsp]Good job Ted.

(If you want you can feel free to rip on my new design which I posted finally this week: http://www.arcanumcafe.com )

[tedloh]

Thanks, Armand.[nbsp][nbsp]I might take out the style sheets as well, I just wanted to see what they would work like.[nbsp][nbsp]Really prefer not to mess with standard fonts...

In particular, what aligned items are you referring to?[nbsp][nbsp]I can only think of the right side (where the search is) which is centered - unless you are referring to the buttons being shifted to the right.[nbsp][nbsp]If that's the case...[nbsp][nbsp]I might take a look at that, because I had thought about that too.[nbsp][nbsp]The whole point really was to prevent all actuvity taking place on one side only - interesting point you bring up there.

Your site looks organized :)[nbsp][nbsp]Loaded very fast too, which is probably the most important.[nbsp][nbsp]The only thing I don't like...[nbsp][nbsp]and this is a personal opinion - is that you have light-colored text on a dark background.[nbsp][nbsp]I always find that harder to read, and a lot of studies indicate the same.[nbsp][nbsp]We're so used to dark on light that going the other way is tough except when you have to highlight something.

Otherwise - a great looking site - and really fast, something I must strive for :)

------------------
Ted (Chief Do-It-All)
Tygre Systems Co Ltd
Bangkok, Thailand, Land of Smiles :) :)
http://www.tygresystems.com (work in progress)
ted@tygresystems.com

[LeafWind]

Very nice designs, both.[nbsp][nbsp]Great use of tables for professional layout.

Tedloh: very sleek. Just one nit-picky thing: for some reason, the black "border" background image on the far left (below the Tygre logo) was the last thing to load, so this was still white until everything else had loaded, then suddenly turned black. You could use a bgcolor=black as well as the background image, so the table cell would be filled in black right away and then the image would load to give it the soft-edge look, without being such an obvious change.[nbsp][nbsp]Yeah, I know, it's a tiny little thing, but it's the only improvement I could come up with.

Armand: very smart looking, and fast loading. Though, your yellow text color is a much warmer color than the pale blue of your links, and so it seems to "come forward" off the page, while the blue links recede and are subdued in comparison.[nbsp][nbsp]If you want to draw attention to the links, you might consider switching these colors, or otherwise changing them so that the link color is a warmer/brighter one than the text color.
Content-wise, it's a great first page, with the different aspects of the site clearly explained, very welcoming, encouraging the new visitor to explore, not at all confusing like some sites where someone new might not be able to tell how to find what they're looking for without a lot of trial and error. ;)

You're inspiring me to get going and redo our own site (it's long, long overdue)!

Bekariso
------------------
www.LeafWind.com (http://www.LeafWind.com)
Growing web sites that thrive in the winds of change.

[tedloh]

LOL![nbsp][nbsp]Thanks, Bekariso :)

Actually, I noticed exactly the same thing you did.[nbsp][nbsp]I was thinking there must be some other way to speed that up...[nbsp][nbsp]also the background shadow before the tabs.

I'm still playing with it a wee bit more - going to shift the black cell on the right into the footer.html instead of including it in every new HTML I write... may solve some width problems as well.[nbsp][nbsp]Also, testing fonts and colors - I think I will revert the link colors to normal (blue/purple), but leave it green on a mouseover - or maybe turn it yellow.

Now:[nbsp][nbsp]people prefer tables with borders (as in above link), or without borders, as in

http://www.tygresystems.com/proc.php3?id=tl2.html

I still prefer the Times font, but the Arial font looks more modern and "squeezes" itself better - and matches the font used in the tabs.

I'm giving myself a final deadline - Wednesday for design, and Sunday for content - because I have to do three other websites (actually, four or five including one I own and one I might obtain).

OK, everybody - one.... two.... three.... AAAAAAAARGH!

There - had to get that off my chest :)

------------------
Ted (Chief Do-It-All)
Tygre Systems Co Ltd
Bangkok, Thailand, Land of Smiles :) :)
http://www.tygresystems.com (work in progress)
ted@tygresystems.com

[sheila]

I prefer the page where the table borders show...which surprised me because I use borderless tables in a lot of my pages. However, I don't do that side-by-side column thing that you are doing.

The borders helped me focus better on blocks of writing. Without the borders my eyes felt like they weren't sure where to focus, where something started and ended.

[tedloh]

Was the same thing I was thinking, Sheila.[nbsp][nbsp]But I decided to can the border to see how it would look.[nbsp][nbsp]Ever notice that UBB uses borders too?


------------------
Ted (Chief Do-It-All)
Tygre Systems Co Ltd
Bangkok, Thailand, Land of Smiles :) :)
http://www.tygresystems.com (work in progress)
ted@tygresystems.com

[Armand]

Ted, just so you know... I though the centering of the footer (the links and copyright info) was odd to me the most.[nbsp][nbsp]Wasn't that bad on the right side with the centering.[nbsp][nbsp]Though adding space between the 2nd and 3rd column and then setting that area to left aligned might look good also... just a thought that popped into my head.[nbsp][nbsp]Have to agree with Shelia that this is one of the few cases where the borders kind of worked for me or at least design #1.[nbsp][nbsp]The yellow links seemed oddly colored to me and much more obvious about it on the second design.[nbsp][nbsp]Just my opinions.

And as far as my site, I appreciate the comments, opinions and suggestions.[nbsp][nbsp]Tried many designs then just realized to stay with web designers golden rule from some discussion in here: Keep it simple stupid.[nbsp][nbsp]Glad to know the organization made that trip.

And you know I've tried several times to switch to a light background instead of the dark stuff.[nbsp][nbsp]But my crowd actually freaks out and wants to keep the darker stuff... go figure, poets!

Hmmm... as far as the text.. the change in backgrounds on this design seemed to make the text (which stayed the same color) look a bit lighter than it was before and admittedly tougher to read I think.[nbsp][nbsp]Maybe I'm getting old or staring at screen too long, but it also looks fuzzy to me. I like your suggest Beka and will have to see how that looks.[nbsp][nbsp]My only problem with that might be that I generally subscribe to the theory of keeping links near the standard blue and purple scheme and often fear that if I change from that, that users might be confused.[nbsp][nbsp]Superstitious fear from using the web as far back as all gray backgrounda days I suppose.

[Justin]

Ted - note that this UBB does not use regular table borders - each reply is in 2 tables - an outer one with a bgcolor of dark blue and cellspacing of one pixel, then the inner table with the bgcolor of the lighter blue... this is because Netscape will not allow you to color the table border... it's a custom hack and it makes it work right in both browsers :)

------------------
Justin Nelson
FutureQuest Support

[tedloh]

Thanks, Armand - now I know what you're talking about - that will change as soon as I shift the third column into the footer.html :)[nbsp][nbsp]THEN it will look right.[nbsp][nbsp]And the link coloring I think I agree with - probably should be the normal colors.

And thanks, Justin.[nbsp][nbsp]Never checked that, but really what I was interested in is that there are borders - makes UBB quite easy to read.[nbsp][nbsp]Ever wonder what it would be like without the borders?

------------------
Ted (Chief Do-It-All)
Tygre Systems Co Ltd
Bangkok, Thailand, Land of Smiles :) :)
http://www.tygresystems.com (work in progress)
ted@tygresystems.com

[tedloh]

Want a quick test for Lynx compatibility?

http://www.delorie.com/web/lynxview.html

Heck, I'm tempted to believe there are more Lynx viewers out there than Opera... ;)

Mine did ok - not bad.[nbsp][nbsp]Not great, but all the key stuff works.

...edit...

Early review of Gecko - appears to work - but it is far from a finished product.[nbsp][nbsp]Don't think we should expect it this year.[nbsp][nbsp]It's got bugs, for sure - but so far they appear very minor - most things appear relatively the same as they did in 4.x.[nbsp][nbsp]Next test - a bad page... LOL


------------------
Ted (Chief Do-It-All)
Tygre Systems Co Ltd
Bangkok, Thailand, Land of Smiles :) :)
http://www.tygresystems.com (work in progress)
ted@tygresystems.com
[This message has been edited by tedloh (edited 09-20-99)]

[sheila]

Want a quick test for Lynx compatibility?
http://www.delorie.com/web/lynxview.html
Thanks for the URL, ted. Totally cool.
Heck, I'm tempted to believe there are more Lynx viewers out there than Opera.
I wouldn't be surprised.


[This message has been edited by sheila (edited 09-20-99)]