Message Forums -- Which one to give you?

[Deb]

Hi all,

I must admit I'm a tiny bit upset right now so it may affect my 'logical thinking' :P

Here's the situation.

We want to offer pre-installed message forums for ever one... always have, but had always thought the standard 'WWWboard' from Matt's Script Archive has been an over used easy way to accomplish this task. It's free ware and most hosts offer it for this reason. We simply feel there is much room for improvement with this forum script.

We wanted to excel a bit in the area of Message Forums and have always enjoyed the functionality of the UBB (the forums we use here). As such we have been waiting for the UBB to present us with an offer that we could utilize to provide you all with a fully functional version of the UBB. This would have allowed us to offer something that exceeds the general standards in the area of message forums. Unfortunately there really was no way we could offered to purchase a few hundred licenses for the UBB at full price. ($899/per 10 UBBs). I had contacted them about such a plan and was told that we just need to wait for their resellers plan. This was supposed to be announced sometime around the beginning of the year.

So we were waiting -- and watching the UBB forums closely.

Today I found out that Communitech (another hosting company) has achieved such an agreement with the UBB and is now giving away the UBB as their forum solution to all of those that host their sites on Communitech (first and last sales pitch I'll give them today <grin> )

At first site of this ... I admit that I became down right ticked off! All of the standard human emotions.. gee guess us smaller people aren't good enough huh? Along with.. How come they get a deal on mass purchases but we don't? blah blah blah blah..... I'll spare you the rest http://www.aota.net/ubb/wink.gif

At this point.. my idea of simply waiting for the UBB to offer us a plan we can afford to take advantage of .. has changed to wondering if you guys know of any other message forum scripts that you highly recommend?

If the UBB is the best on the net right now.. and is what you all would prefer... then we will continue to wait for them to speak to us about a mass purchase.. and pray it is something we can afford to provide for all of you. But if you guys have knowledge of other message forum scripts that are also great and possibly even free or more willing to work with a small hosting company to achieve what we are trying to achieve... please share your findings http://www.aota.net/ubb/smile.gif

Thanks to all ahead of time for your input, and apologies for my lil 'rants' that have snuck their way into my post...

Feel free to email me if posting is not appropriate for your replies.

Deb

------------------
Unlocking the Power of the Internet!
www.FutureQuest.net (http://www.FutureQuest.net)

[Sandy]

Hi Deb

ok here's my 2 cents LOL
I don't know of another one but if it were me I wouldn't give UBB another cent because of what they did.
FQ was worth the wait for me..and I'm sure there's another good message board that will be worth the wait too..it's a matter of principle..then again..what do I know LOL

I would write to UBB & ask why they did that & make them feel bad though LOL couldn't hurt

Your intentions are awesome though! http://www.aota.net/ubb/smile.gif

[Deb]

Thanks for the feedback Sandy,

I did post to their forum.. but kept it short and sweet.. and kind.

I agree that it does not seem very fair.. I certainly can understand if another host is able to send more $$'s but could not understand not even allowing us to discuss $$s to begin with ... shrug...

Keep your eyes open... I can bet there is a forum out there that does exceed the expectations and works great.. just need to find it http://www.aota.net/ubb/smile.gif

Deb

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Unlocking the Power of the Internet!
www.FutureQuest.net (http://www.FutureQuest.net)

[Del]

Communitech sucks anyway *eg*

Have a look at DCForum98 (or 97) at www.dcscripts.com/ (http://www.dcscripts.com/) I've used Forum97 and ForumLite from them and been fairly happy with it. It'd take some tweaking to easily make it multi-user tho...

That's all I can think of that could work well. Discus is overkill (in my opinion), wwwthreads is too buggy (in my experience). Maybe a WebBBs system could work, set up an individual config.pl script for each user (since it's fairly small) and run it with the multi-board idea (could maybe even use a seperate script that'd create the config.pl file for the user when they fill out a small form to ask for it?)...

Just my thoughts

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Del
www.downinit.com/ (http://www.downinit.com/)

[This message has been edited by Del (edited 12-29-98).]

[MikeA]

Ok, I can't offer any words of wisdom, except that I trust whatever decision you make. http://www.aota.net/ubb/smile.gif

Just to add a little fuel to the fire. Don't they realize that a small company can become a big company? Something that you may want to remind them of is that at some point they were small.

A suggestion might be to put several up as a test and let people try them out, then vote on the one's they like. That takes the pressure off of you.

You probably have these, but here are some links to sites that may (or may not) have several to choose from:

http://pages.prodigy.net/bombadil/
http://www.cgi-resources.com/


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www.webauthorities.com (http://www.webauthorities.com)
"To continue press any key"...Where's the anykey?

[Alex Ethridge]

Frankly, I already own a one-year license for UBB purchased just about two months ago; however, I have yet to get it to run at all on three different servers. Obviously, it will run here; but, it won't for me.

Having UBB already set up and available for me is a service I would pay a little extra for. After all, I paid about $60 for a year's license and I would rather have passed that license money to FQ if it were already set up.

Perhaps you could tack it on for a small fee.

[meikel]

I don't know much about online forums, but I found some nice ones at:

I think these are DISCUS implementations:
http://www.usms.org/discus/
http://www.permaearth.org/discus/board.html
The main DISCUS site is at
http://www.chem.hope.edu/~discus/home2/index.html
The script is FREE and looks very nice. It has all needed features (url-support, etc.) and the frame-version is really nice.

Maybe I find some more usable boards on the web, but I think the price-value index for DISCUS is hard to beat.

I wish everyone here a Happy New Year
[nbsp]&bnsp;Meikel
http://www.meikel.com
http://www.tickerland.com

[meikel]

I just found that DISCUS is not 100% free.
http://www.chem.hope.edu/~discus/home2/license/multiple.html

Meikel

[zeegraf]

Take a look at WWWThreads. It's freeware, as far as I know. Here's the blurb from their site:

"WWWThreads is a Discussion forum that supports multiple boards, user registration, built-in search engine, forum archiving, automated email replies and a complete web based administration package. The entire source code is available under the terms of the GNU GPL."

www.screamingweb.com/wwwthreads (http://www.screamingweb.com/wwwthreads)

I've participated in several discussion forums using WWWThreads. While not quite as elegant as UBB, it's quite nice. http://www.aota.net/ubb/smile.gif


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Don Z.
www.zeegraf.com (http://www.zeegraf.com)

"To poldly mow air moebius
gumby four" --Kirk on Novacaine

[hearts]

http://www.ezboard.com/ I found this one today.. it is free to use... all ya have to do is sign up to use it and cutomize it to your preferences.

[Monica]

Aloha! I'm new to FQ. I just switched my hosting services to FQ.

Anywho... After much searching for a new host, the icing on the cake at FQ (for me), was that it had it's own UBB. We had a UBB on a former site, which replaced a Matt's WWW Board. The UBB was very popular and loved by the visitors and admin alike. Ted, the UBB Guru... has always been there in a heartbeat if needed.

If there's a vote... the UBB gets mine!

[queticon]

Deb,

Check this out http://w-agora.araxe.fr/

This is a neat little php3 fourm type board with many features and you can use a flatfile DBM type database so you can offer it to every person free of charge, plus it offers file upload if allowed on server and the client has correct browser. I am looking at this program now, and it use a technolog that your trying to get going.

my pennies worth.

Thanks


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Dan Garwood
Trustmark Associates, Inc.
Senior Leasing Officer
www.trustmarkleasing.com
dgarwood@trustmarkleasing.com

[Deb]

From what I have seen so far... I think I'm seriously looking at two things....

http://w-agora.araxe.fr/ for which I'm trying to enhance my skills now to play with this a bit... I like it because it allows us to offer a 'canned script' that utilizes some of our extra features. I also like that it really doesn't require extra help from the browsers.. e.g. Java, Javascript, Frames, etc and it's free http://www.aota.net/ubb/wink.gif

Secondly.. I agree that the UBB simply kicks butt.. it's an awesome script.. but it also goes throughs upgrades more times then I can count in any given month... which could make it rough to offer the UBB as a 'standard' script w/o becoming behind... not to mention that it is not free. So I'm thinking it may be a good idea to offer it as an option... something like a choice of specials .. as an incentive for pre-payments and or at a small fee for the install.. who knows....

but at this point that's what I'm looking at..

Keep up the feedback.. I'm thrilled that so many of you have offered suggestions.. it's awesome!

Thanks!

Deb

[queticon]

Deb,

I am currently trying to use agora and I will keep you posted of my progress and what it looks like once it is up and running. I am having trouble with file permissions at the moment, but I will save that question for another post.

http://www.aota.net/ubb/smile.gif

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Dan Garwood
Trustmark Associates, Inc.
Senior Leasing Officer
www.trustmarkleasing.com
dgarwood@trustmarkleasing.com

[queticon]

Deb,

I have a little treat for you. I have the agora message board up and running. Please go and take a look. I am not interfacing it with mysql at this point, but it is functioning great none the less. I know it is still very blan, but it is functioning and for that I am truly amazed.

Tell me what you think

http://www.trustmarkleasing.com/w-agora-3.0b2/w-agora.php3?bn=Leasing_Forum


------------------
Dan Garwood
Trustmark Associates, Inc.
Senior Leasing Officer
www.trustmarkleasing.com
dgarwood@trustmarkleasing.com

[Deb]

Awesome http://www.aota.net/ubb/smile.gif

I'll check it out later on this evening...

Thanks http://www.aota.net/ubb/wink.gif

Deb

[Monica]

I think what's improtant to keep in mind, is... as a webmaster, what do your visitors like? The perfect board/forum for the webmaster... may be hated by the visitors, and visa versa.

As for UBB multi updates, hey... no law says ya gotta do it. Ont the UBB's UBB.... there are plenty of comments to Ted regarding his updates. If I cooked as often as Ted updated... well... let's just say the take out joints in my town would have to file for Chapter 11.

And ya... the UBB might be pricey... but quality always is!

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Aloha nui loa,
Monica

[Alex Ethridge]

Monica, I agree that UBB is the nicest thing I've seen and I know it is a good product; but, my experience is very limited.

However, there is one thing that I am very angry about concerning UBB. I posted at their site asking what I should do if my server had restrictions against 777 on scripts and folders. I got a sudden shift from my question to an attitude of blaming. Their attitude was, "It's not our fault your host is out of line.", and they didn't offer even a suggestion to my problem nor did they exhibit any willingness whatsoever to help nor did they seem apologetic that they would not or could not help. It was actually hostil.

I think that attitude stinks and I'm mad as hell about it. I hold no loyalty to UBB. If you care to see it for yourself:

http://www.prime-web.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/001539.html

I've been in one or another service business all my life. I've never exhibited such an attitude toward even one customer (even when I felt they deserved it) in my whole 25 years.

By the way, I am a registered (meaning PAID) UBB user.

[This message has been edited by Alex Ethridge (edited 01-02-99).]

[Benson]

Is the UBB *that* far ahead of it's competitors that they can treat their customers like this? It sounds like they have no close competition.

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alba gu brath

[EWS]

I think everything is fine ... I use both a WWWBoard and a new UBB which I'm leasing. I like the UBB more but I don't think you need to offer this service to clients. A pre-installed WWWBoard is good enough. You have better things to spend your money on such as server costs. Unless you get a really good reseller deal for the UBB, it's not necesary. The other hosting companies are nothing to envy, FutureQuest is the best!

[Fortune]

http://www.wwwthreads.org/ WWWThreads 3.0 is in development with many new features. It is still snapshot release. It runs on a combination of DBI and mySQL. It will be better than UBB when it is completed.


[This message has been edited by Fortune (edited 02-14-99).]

[This message has been edited by Fortune (edited 02-14-99).]

[Benson]

It will be better than UBB when it is completed.

Wow. I just took a look-see at WWWThreads. I like it! Navigation through the forums and through the messages seems MUCH nicer than UBB..

[meikel]

wow. this one looks really cool.
Anybody found some license info already? I don't want to download it to see some license.txt file.

Meikel

[Fortune]

This program(WWWThreads) is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify
it under the terms of the GNU General Public License as published by
the Free Software Foundation.

[Justin]

I can't wait to download this thing and start hacking...

So far, I like the navigation and the extra profile fields. I like the Private Messages, too, that could be handy. I like a lot of it, but I don't like the file attachment capabilities. I don't see the need, but I'm sure you can turn that off (or hack it out).

I will try it out when it is released, however, is mySQL required to run this thing? I'm not sure how that works, but that would require an upgrade here, right? That sux, but I think I could make it work with text files like the UBB...

Seems like a really nice, free board. Worth consideration.

BTW, what would be so wrong about including the freeware UBB? I like it a lot, and even without the mods, it still is nice for being free. And it's extremely easy to set up once you figure out the whole permissions thing.


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Justin Nelson, SFE Inc.
http://www.vdj.net

[Dean B]

That was gonna be my suggestion as well Justin. Although the freeware UBB has most of the licensed features disabled it certainly gives you a good *feel* for the workings of the UBB. I've set quite a few freeware UBBs up and most users have gone on to purchase a licensed version.
Maybe Deb you could come to some sort of arrangement with Ted regarding referals..


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Regards, Dean.
**DMCity Web Board**
www.dmcity.com/cgi-bin/ubb/Ultimate.cgi (http://www.dmcity.com/cgi-bin/ubb/Ultimate.cgi)

[Justin]

What about their reseller program? It's not in effect yet, but they are supposed to be getting that going soon - might want to check into that.


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Justin Nelson, SFE Inc.
http://www.vdj.net

[DB]

I've set-up several Discus boards, two Pro and the freebie on my site. I absolutely swear by it and while it seems a little complex at first, it is really very easy to use. The free version isn't crippled copy of the Pro version, it is fully functional. In fact, the Pro version was only released a few months ago and offers features for those who have very busy forums or need extra security. No yearly licensing, pay your $99 and forget about it. Tech support via their forum has been excellent.

You can see examples of the pro versions at:
http://smartasses.org/discus
http://locksmith.com/discus

I should have the free version set-up at my site in a few hours (still moving in):
http://diamond-back.com/discus

Oh, and they are host friendly, check their ISP/WPP policy at:
http://www.chem.hope.edu/~discus/home2/license/policies/isp.html

BTW, I've known people to switch from UBB to to Discus, but I've never heard of anyone going the other direction. What does that tell you? ;->

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--Tom aka DiamondBack

[Del]

I recently installed the DB version of WWWThreads on my site. Installation was a breeze, only had a couple minor stupid errors (stupid on my part, like leaving the new cgi dir chmodded 775. Causes an error on FQuest *s* (due to the proper building of the server)). Anyway, I was quite impressed with it. Think I'll be using it for my forum script.

I deleted it right after seeing it run, mostly because I'm about to totally redesign the whole site using the Linux box, then I'll put in the footer something like 'No Micro$oft product was used in the making of this product. etc...'. Besides, I quite often install a script and delete it once it works. Dunno why, just don't feel like I do quite enough tinkering or something (besides, helps me smoke less)

Gonna shut up now



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Del
www.downinit.com (http://www.downinit.com)

da da da

[alexandra]

My 2 cents on UBBs: I have a UBB now (paid license) with over 1,000 messages, so I would not be happy about switching (not that I'd have to). I spent two weeks researching other boards before I got the UBB and found that it was the best board out there -- for me.

Several points, some, or parts of, which have been made by others:

1. Different boards for different folks. The UBB is ideal for me because of speed, and that the messsages are all right there on one "page;" you don't have to spend ten minutes clicking back and forth. BUT it's less than ideal, in a way, because my people tend to wander off topic (which is fine) and a very interesting discussion is lost to latecomers because the topic line doesn't convey the content of the thread. So in some ways, a threaded discussion board might be better (on balance, I'm happy, but this is to point out that the UBB's structure might not be right for everyone).

Second, yes, UBB does upgrade a lot, but the about-to-be-released upgrade is a GIANT upgrade, and it's doubtful that there will be another one for awhile, except a few very minor ones to get the bugs out. My original installer said to wait for at least 30 days after a major upgrade before upgrading, so you got a bug-free version. Good advice, I think, and if FQ wanted to offer a UBB, then it could wait until the current upgrade was ready. But

Third, does every site need a message board? And for those of us who already have one, well, how are we accommodated? It's like offering free parking to people who bike to work or take the bus. (Suggestion: you could offer a free installation to those who already have a license OR pick up the renewal, if that's part of a reseller agreement.)

Fourth, why not offer the freeware version? That would do it for those who really don't need a message board, or who aren't sure. I've found the ubb people to be very friendly -- some exceptions, as everywhere -- but one snitty answer on a board should be taken as representative of the whole. Also, regarding That Other Hosting Company this is just a thought on my part -- no proof -- but that company took a lot of abuse by posters on the ubb board a few months ago. People relating horrible experiences and suggesting -- nay, ordering! -- others to go somewhere else. Ted posted an announcement asking posters not to bash other companies. So I wonder if that might have something to do with their offering a deal?

That said, if it were my toy, I'd contact UBB and put the situation to them about prices honestly, with your own good ideas and the many on this thread, and ask them to explain their actions. The reselling thing is new to them, too, and they're probably working out the kinks. FutureQuest has been mentioned very favorably on their board; you might point that out to them.

Sorry this is so long.

Alexandra

[Deb]

You all have brought up many great points/suggestions/opinions etc.... thank you!

The day I posted the orginal message I was obviously a bit perturb.. but I did get over that http://www.aota.net/ubb/smile.gif Right now my main focus is growth and improvements and making sure we are giving what you all need.

As Andrew said in another thread, we are anxious to finish these NOC changes and SSL -- from that point our focus is going to be on cleaning up and adding to the features we do have like the CNC, its contents, and aota.net...

What I do plan on doing is finding as many free versions of scripts that seem to be requested often and editing them as I did with the guestbook recently. e.g. making the instructions appropriate for the FQuest server and changing the paths so they resemble our setup as much as possible so that everyone has an easier time with instal.

What's this mean for Message Forums? Well here is the plan. Everyone has different needs and tastes for what they want. Offering a single canned version isn't going to please the majority as Alexandra pointed out. In the end people will use what works best for them.

I'd like to offer a variety of scripts for download from aota.net (editing each as I explained above) for the site owners to choose from.

For pre-installed -- here is the script we are going to take a serious look at http://www.phorum.org -- this one has many of the features that the UBB has along with features from other forums... it also is PHP/MySQL based so it may be easier on the resources needed http://www.aota.net/ubb/smile.gif I estimate within a month or two we will be digging deep into its code and working it into the server as an option for all here to use and install from the CNC automatically. And it to is free http://www.aota.net/ubb/smile.gif

As far as the UBB itself goes -- I still love the functionality of this forum and highly recommend it!! If/When they get their reseller plans in place what we'll probably do is just pass that discount on to you guys -- so if you want/need to purchase the full version then you can just go through us and save some money... providing their resellers plan will work that way.

TheThreads.org also looked pretty interesting! (they need to add stripslashes though hehe)

Another idea I've been tossing around is encouraging you guys to use each other to accomplish things... for example, setting up an area on aota.net that lists various services that site owners here will offer to other site owners.... we have coders, and promoters, and designers etc here so why not promote/support them. Not sure how to explain my thoughts here... but something like a classifieds area where those who can offer services could list them out and maybe offer a low/discounted price to others on the server... If Del needs promotion and 123marketing needs a script installed.. then the two could easily find each other and work on a barter -- I REALLY REALLY want to hold a community around FQuest and think this might be yet another way to accomplish it.

So that's my thoughts so far http://www.aota.net/ubb/smile.gif

Deb

[DB]

I'm willing to help anyone wishing to try Discus or Discus Pro, though the instructions that come with it work fine on FQ. First you download a file called ftpdiag.cgi and upload it to your CGI-BIN directory. When it's run it will find all the directory paths it needs to set-up Discus with your FQ account, just add the title of your forum and your name and proceed to the download. The files you get are customized for your FQ account, so all you have to do is follow the instructions for making directories, then FTP the files and set the permissions, you never need to edit a file. There is also a Telnet version if you prefer that method (easier, actually). I have a Pro and free version running on FQ, both installed flawlessly. The only change from the defaults was the path to sendmail (/usr/lib/sendmail) which can be modified from the admin section. If you do run into problems there is a diagnostics section, though I've never needed to run it.

I really don't understand the love affair so many people have with UBB. I'm not saying it is a bad forum, just not the best. I'm looking at the list of features not included in the freeware version of UBB, compare them to the freeware version of Discus.

No smilies - you can have all the smilies you want with Discus, both text or graphics. In fact you can upload any graphics you want and they will be automagically added to the clipart collection. The code for a text smilie is \ch{ http://www.aota.net/ubb/smile.gif}, or a graphic version is \clipart{smile}. Users can upload any GIF or JPG to a post using \image{graphic_name). The Pro version supports even more file types, like wav, midi and exe. Note, these files are uploaded directly from the user's hard drive to the server the forum is on, no third-party server is needed. The admin can turn this feature off, limit it to just members and put additional limits on the permissible file types and sizes. Beat that.

No editing/pruning - What, is this some kind of sick joke? I know there are ways around this but those should be standard features of any forum. With the free Discus you can edit, prune and move posts to your heart's content. Users may edit their own posts during a time period the admin sets (makes threads less confusing). The Pro version offers several additional features for automatic pruning and archiving, very nice for busy forums.

No cookies to track sessions - free version has a session cookie to remember username/password and also the last visit time and date for new message searches. The Pro version has (semi) permanent configurable cookies.

No style variables - If this refers to text styles then Discus is loaded with them. It can convert HTML or RTF and has its own extensive formatting tags (which the uses of my forums love). I particularly like the way it will convert URLs to hyperlinks. The formatting is so extensive that some people have used the forum to replace their entire website. Links can open in a new window or in the current frame or window, so you can integrate normal HTML, PHP or CGI generated pages seamlessly into the forum.

No email features - full e-mail support with enough options to make your head spin (I won't even attempt to list them all).

No announcements - supports announcements.

No categories - supports categories.

Only 9 forums - have as many forums/topics in as many groups and subtopics as you want.

IOWs, the free version of Discus has all the features that are left out of UBB. It even has features that are missing from the paid version of UBB, like message preview for example. Wouldn't you like to see what your formatting will look like before you post and then be able to edit it immediately?

You can have unlimited moderators and group based access, language filters, anonymous posting (or not), keyword searches, moderated discussions... pretty much everything UBB has. And I'm still talking about the free version.

The Pro version (ONE TIME $99 charge with volume discounts available) has lots of extra goodies like restricted read/post or hidden topics (by group or single password), automatic or queued forum accounts (the free version can be modified to create new accounts on the fly), customizable user profiles with user uploadable pictures(!), log analysis and board back-up features (all files or just messages, users, formatting in one or more tar files with or without compression). This isn't even a complete list, just some of the highlights. You can have frames or no frames and customize the look of the forum from the admin menus. If you want to further customize the forum you can do so without having to alter the CGI scripts, almost everything is handled through templates (which makes multi-language support easy). The Discus homepage (http://www.chem.hope.edu/discus/) has more suggestions for custom improvements. You can also play admin and try out most of the features there. The code is about as bug-free as any I've seen. In fact, I downloaded the Pro version the day it was released and had very few problems. The P5 version is a final and in many ways close to perfection (you may never see me type those words again about anything).

Okay, so I'm rambling, but it isn't often I find a program I like this much. Could someone please explain why they would rather use a crippled (ie. no msg pruning/editing) version of UBB when they can have a fully functional version of Discus with more features for free? Or why they would pay a yearly license fee for a forum with less features than they could get with a one time payment for Discus? I really don't get it. UBB seems like the AOL of forums, it is popular because so many people have heard of it, not because it is better. UBB may seem easier to use AT FIRST, but once you've used Discus for a while I can't imagine ever going back. *walks away shaking head in bewilderment*

------------------
--Tom aka DiamondBack

[DB]

Well, it looks like UBB and Discus share one thing in common, they both recognize a smilie, though they interpret them in different ways.

Okay, I'm done with my book.

------------------
--Tom aka DiamondBack

[hearts]

awwwwwwww heck.. just give us Justins! *giggle*

whew!!! LOTS of reading here.

I like Deb's idea of us helping eachother. This has been the most fun and the best learning tool for me. I am up for it! Put me on whatever list to help. I am still learning but I don't mind helping anyone. http://www.aota.net/ubb/smile.gif

And I agree, there has to be other top choices other than the UBB. I think they are snobby and over rated and would love to see someone show them up. What makes them think they are all that? *they can't be too great if I can work around their code* http://www.aota.net/ubb/wink.gif

What I think would be really fascinating is if some of the community members had time, get together and knock out a forum that had the best of the best. I think ya'll could do it.

--------

hearts
-- thinking outloud --

[gwlubin]

Hi!

I am a little confused by the above. I would love to have a forum on my site but do not have a clue where to begin.

So, where are we on this issue now?


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Graham
www.loobie.com
"Was she so loved because her eyes were so beautiful, or were her eyes so beautiful because she was so loved?"
Anzia Yezierska

[hearts]

hey Graham..

it is like this... you gotta decide what kind of forum you like.. and install it yourself. *giggle*

and if ya don't know how to deal with scripts, then ya ask one of us *really nice like* and we help ya out. http://www.aota.net/ubb/wink.gif

I suppose you could be rude about it, but it won't get ya anywhere.. hehehe.

Or you could figure out how to steal Justins!!! *LOL*

-----

hearts

[Justin]

Yall just like to pick on lil ol' me, huh? http://www.aota.net/ubb/smile.gif

About the free script to be provided by FQ, I just want to say that it would be a nice addition to FQ's already excellent package, but probably not really necessary for most of us.
It's like offering free parking to people who bike to work or take the bus
I figure it's more like offering a bus ride for everyone, while some people have cars of their own. Those with cars should be happy that they have a car, not wondering why they aren't getting something out of it too, like a tank of gas or an oil change. I think it's nice that all of these people don't have to walk in the cold rain getting splashed by our cars http://www.aota.net/ubb/smile.gif

About Discuss, I'm sorry, but I like the UBB far better. I hate frames for the most part, and I just really like UBB's organization better. Remember, it's all a matter of opinion. I'm sure Discuss is written a lot cleaner, as the UBB is very sloppy code, but that's like wondering why so many people choose Windows over more stable and powerful systems (and some even free, like Linux). Three reasons: It's a standard, it's familiar, and if you know how to utilize it properly, it can be just as powerful as the others (I have Windows mastered and UBB's code almost memorized). I'm sure the Mac OS is a lot easier to use, etc, but I don't care. I like Windows. And I like the UBB.

Personally, I don't care for the ability to upload files - I don't see that as being anything more than a hassle and a security hole. I'm sure that on a less popular board, it's a nice thing (or a private forum), but something like that would only cause trouble for most.

Personal Icons / pictures - hehe, I'm almost done with that hack for the UBB. I probably won't put it into mine, though, as mine is for tech support for my software and it would be unnecessary there. But that's easy to incorporate.

Hearts - I don't think it is legal for me to distribute my modified version to anyone, really. I read the licence agreement. I can modify it all I want, as long as their copyright notices are intact and it's for my own use. It can't be distributed except for in it's origional form. I hate it too, but oh, well (I wouldn't want people giving out modified versions of my programs either).

Oh, Deb, I have to say that if you were able to say "Freeware UBB included" in the descriptions for the packaging, that would really make a difference in one's decision, even if it is the freeware version. Just because of it's popularity, and the fact that it would be supported, eg, not a third party script, it would make a difference. Now if you could get the paid version, that would be better, of course, but the freeware one should be fine - plus they should know that upgrading, once the freeware one is installed, is very easy.

I also like the discount idea, too, if Ted would go for that - I see no reason why not. That might just get me motivated enough to purchase it myself...

I think I've covered just about everything that's been on my mind in this thread for the last couple of days. Another day, another kilobyte wasted on AOTA...

Justin http://www.aota.net/ubb/biggrin.gif


------------------
Justin Nelson, SFE Inc.
http://www.vdj.net

[hearts]

now now now Justin!!! Didn't you get all technical with us!! HEHEHEHE..

YES.. you are right.. we can NOT distribute the modified version. *I guess they are afraid you could make their forum more fun and more popular than they did.. hehehe.

but Justin... don't tell us you wasted your time at the forums! http://www.aota.net/ubb/wink.gif

Another day, another kilobyte wasted on AOTA...

and I wasn't picking on ya.. I am impressed with your skills and your undying talent to reform that UBB! *hugs*

[DB]

Hi Justin... for the most part I agree with you. A few comments on your comments:

I hate frames for the most part, and I just really like UBB's organization better.

I hate 'em too 99% of the time, though I rather like the way Discus uses them. When I click on a thread it opens in a new (frameless) window so I get the best of both worlds. Besides, frames are optional, you can offer a frames or no frames link to your forum and let your visitors decide which they prefer (no modifications required).

Discus can be organized many ways, it can closely imitate UBB's layout or be set-up to meet special needs. Since it is template driven changes don't have to be made to the CGI, any HTMLer can give it a make over without reverse engineering the scripts. Added bonus: upgrades usually won't wipe-out all your mods so it is easier to stay current and customized.

I'm sure Discuss is written a lot cleaner, as the UBB is very sloppy code, but that's like wondering why so many people choose Windows over more stable and powerful systems (and some even free, like Linux). Three reasons: It's a standard, it's familiar, and if you know how to utilize it properly, it can be just as powerful as the others (I have Windows mastered and UBB's code almost memorized).

I use Windows for the same reasons, there is a big advantage to using a standard OS. I don't feel that the advantage of using a "standard" forum is as great since the software runs independently of other apps.

Familiarity is the strongest case for people like yourself who have been using UBB for a while and know it inside and out. But for folks who haven't developed a brand loyalty, I think UBB can be a poor choice. IMHO, the free version of UBB is just a come-on to get people using their product. It is sufficiently crippled as to make upgrading to the paid version practically a necessity for any successful forum. And once you get to that point they have you for life since you have to pay every year. On the other hand, Discus only recently became available in a Pro version, the free version has always been intended as a fully functional forum. When they released the Pro version, none of the free version features were lost, on the contrary, they improved it and a few of the new features intended for the Pro version ended-up in the free version. There was extensive discussion (debate?) in the Discus home forum over which new features should be in the free version or the forthcoming Pro version. Naturally, most users wanted all the new goodies to be in the free version and on a few occasions made such a strong case that they were granted their wish. I think it says a lot about the developers that they care about their users, whether they are paying or not. I equate Discus with FQ... they're the little guys with the big heart and the superior product, but they have to struggle in the shadow of Goliath. It seems like a shame when people choose a product, whether it's an ISP, a hosting service or a forum, just because "that what everyone else is using" rather than on its merits.

Anyway, we are fortunate to be able to be able to run whatever forum we please on our sites. I would encourage anyone considering a forum to give Discus a long, hard look. Compare the features of both free versions (and ask yourself if little things like being able to easily edit/prune/move your posts sounds like something you might want to be able to do). The free version is well supported and probably all most sites will ever need. I believe in the product strongly enough to offer to help any FQer get it set-up and running on their site for free. If you don't like it the files are easy enough to delete. Just drop me a line at diamondback@mindspring.com and include "FQ" in the subject (so I'll get around to opening it sometime this year http://www.aota.net/ubb/smile.gif).

------------------
--Tom aka DiamondBack
http://diamond-back.com

[hearts]

this is such a long topic, but I know I agree with someone here.. the free version of the UBB is "free" of any decent quality. I saw this little forum, and thought it was a waste of time. To me it was just a "sample" of the UBB and there is no freedom with it.

It appears it is some sort of "legality" thing with the UBB, they state they recommend that you try installing the "freeware version" to be sure you can handle the lisenced version.

What is so bad about frames anyways? I don't find them so awful. They help make for easier navigation. *providing the links open up in the appropriate window*

[Jacob Stetser]

What is so bad about frames anyways? I don't find them so awful. They help make for easier navigation. *providing the links open up in the appropriate window*

Ok, this is somewhat off-topic, so I'll make it short http://www.aota.net/ubb/smile.gif

Frames, used incorrectly, multiply the number of reference paradigms on a site. In english, that means: the user has to keep track of several different foci, one in each frame, and that can get confusing.

That, and you can almost never bookmark within frames.

Used correctly, they are fine.

As for fora choices? I've used Discus, and I wasn't really fond of it, but the setup was a snap. UBB seems a whole lot cleaner to me, probably because I like the linear rather than threaded forum model.

I've been looking at BigTalker, although I have questions about the author, who seems to like writing knock-offs of popular scripts (his IndexFinger == Links, his BigTalker == UBB). Of course, I haven't always heard great things about UBB's author either.

Sigh. Try running a business with a soul these days, and you run into so many who just don't care http://www.aota.net/ubb/frown.gif

If people want to get together and write a UBB-like script that's faster, less resource-intensive, well-coded, and better featured, I'd be happy to help in any way I could! http://www.aota.net/ubb/smile.gif

[Deb]

Sigh. Try running a business with a soul these days, and you run into so many who just don't care http://www.aota.net/ubb/frown.gif

So true http://www.aota.net/ubb/frown.gif

On another note.... this thread has reached maximum capacity http://www.aota.net/ubb/smile.gif

I'm going to close it and request that the forum discussions be moved to Advanced Delevelopement -- thanks http://www.aota.net/ubb/smile.gif

I would NOT suggest not discussing all of this any more.. as I think it's a good thread.. it's just long and one feature the UBB doesn't have yet is the ability to limit how many posts can be in a thread before it leaves a "continue" link at the bottom (hmmm)

Deb

[Jacob Stetser]

Hee Hee Hee.. If this works, you guys need to update to get rid of the posting to a closed thread bug.

Just had to get in the last word.

Jake