A word about

[Deb]

Some of you have expressed concern about a comment TeRRa made the other day, he said and I Justin and myself are also teaming up and drilling hard into automating every aspect of FutureQuest that we can get our hands on... The concerns expressed about that comment were in the area of feeling like FutureQuest wouldn't be as "personal" or "real" as we have been in the past.[nbsp][nbsp]I've heard enough of you express this that I wanted to try and explain what "Automation" means to us so you will have a better idea of why Justin, TeRRa, and others are working on this so hard as a priority focus.

In no way could we ever "automate" ourselves, you, or any aspect of the human side of this business.[nbsp][nbsp]The entire foundation of FutureQuest has been built on community -- You can *NOT* automate a community and I do *NOT* want to try ;)[nbsp][nbsp] What has happened while we grow however, is that standard tasks have stolen the majority of the time we have to spend with the community.

Things like Account setups & payment reminders do not offer any of you any real "human interaction" at all.[nbsp][nbsp]Yet, they both currently take up a whole lot of time away from the human's on this end.[nbsp][nbsp]I would much rather be hanging out in these forums, talking and learning with all of you, than be sitting behind a billing program and telling it to send payment reminders![nbsp][nbsp]The same goes with setting up a parked domain, or IRM, or putting together an alias stack.[nbsp][nbsp]All things that are done multiple times a day but offer no "human interaction" whatsoever.[nbsp][nbsp]These are the types of things Justin and TeRRa are wanting to automate.[nbsp][nbsp]Why should you have to email support to request your root email address be forwarded? It takes time away from you and time away from us.[nbsp][nbsp]Thankfully, due to "automation" you wont have to email us for that task any longer as it's part of your new CNC ;)

The areas TeRRa and Justin will be working on will only serve to benefit all of us.[nbsp][nbsp]Rather than taking away from the "personalization" of FutureQuest, we are hoping for it to bring it back to us.[nbsp][nbsp]The more account setups I have to do in a day, the less time I have to offer personalized support and just plain have fun in the forums etc.

Time is a precious thing and I hate to "waste" it on standard tasks when I could be exploring, learning, and practicing with all of the new tools right along with the rest of you.

So anyway, I just wanted to touch on the subject a bit and hopefully clarify that what TeRRa said was in fact an effort to keep things personalized and real while preventing the FQ team from becoming robots you all wouldn't wanna chit chat with anyway ;)

Deb
[nbsp]--
[nbsp][nbsp]Has the mission been completed?
[nbsp][nbsp][nbsp][nbsp][nbsp][nbsp][nbsp][nbsp]You know that I have the greatest enthusiasm for it.

[heath]

Time is a precious thing and I hate to "waste" it on standard tasks when I could be exploring, learning, and practicing with all of the new tools right along with the rest of you.
Personally, I'd never tell anyone how to run their business, but I can't help but to think the addition of NT virtual hosting will provide great humor in these posting forums watching you guys struggle and fight to get it working.

As a paying futurequest customer that has been spoiled by EXCELLENT tech support, I have the right to laugh because your greed in trying to establish yourself in the NT hosting arena can do NOTHING but be detrimental to the quality of tech support we are currently enjoying.

My prayers are with you endevor.

Heath
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www.thedailyspread.com (http://www.thedailyspread.com)
www.betstart.com (http://www.betstart.com)

[Deb]

hmm, Heath you've lost me.[nbsp][nbsp]No where in my post am I talking about NT services? Not quite sure why you bring that up here?

The "automation" I am referring to is within the CNC and the server cores which are (last time I checked) still *nix servers :)

[nbsp][nbsp]Deb
[nbsp][nbsp] --
[nbsp][nbsp] WHhhoooossshhhh!


[This message has been edited by Deb (edited 12-20-99)]

[Terra]

because your greed in trying Hmmm, I just checked my dictionary and the word greed returned an 'Access Denied' page...

--
Terra
--Thinking he had the most up-to-date dictionary around--
FutureQuest

[Charles Capps]

And for that matter, since when do NT and automation belong together in the same sentence?

[Rich]

Responding to: Post containing word stems of "auto"

Document contains discussion of increased robot use so that humans can spend more time with other humans.

Response: Good job. Way to go. This is rekjy as wjizd ameojjdily noo weuk!

drawline
------------------------------

[Automated response by Tobor from Bot-O-Matic]

Rich
-- "surfing in Hawii"

[heath]

Deb -- I thought the connection between NT hosting and your post was obvious.[nbsp][nbsp]I know your post was about automation, but this statement is not so clear:

Time is a precious thing and I hate to "waste" it on standard tasks when I could be exploring, learning, and practicing with all of the new tools right along with the rest of you.
"New Tools"

"Exploring and Learning"

"Practicing"

hmmm....

Maybe you are referring to new "UNIX Automation Tools that you need to practice and explore and learn" to use.

For me, it rendered thoughts of your efforts to expand into NT hosting.

As someone who attempted to find good NT hosting for over 2 years (and was hosted by a several different NT hosts) - I find an expansion here laughable.

Once the process of maintaining reliable NT hosting consumes 100% of your tech's time, detracts from your bottom line, and makes life here horrible, we'll all just move on in our quest to find what we had here at futurequest in the "good ole' days" - minus some innane desire to provide NT hosting.

I'm not in the crystal ball business, and I'm not a fortune teller - as a paying customer, I am just letting you know what I think will happen and voice my concerns about your proposed efforts into this arena.

[Justin]

I do not understand the connection here... by "automation" we are refering to some of our internal projects. One of them that I am currently working on uses PHP/Perl/MySQL along with lots of cron jobs - Unix tools for the most part - and has absolutely nothing to do with NT. In fact, even if we did start NT hosting, our internal control stuff and automation tools would remain on Unix systems. Even the CNC, which automates things like email alias stacks, email forwarding, enabling/disabling your catch-all account and so on, is written in Perl and will only work on Unix - it would never run on NT, nor was it ever intended to.

And the things that the CNC automates help the site owners just as much as they help us - not only does TeRRa no longer have to manually edit text files to set up an alias stack, you no longer have to bother emailing support and waiting for the task to be completed. Automation.

If it's the "exploring/learning" part rather than automation that makes you think NT, I don't understand that either. There is a lot to explore on Unix systems, but in reality I don't think Deb was even refering to the servers at all, but rather other internal/business related goals that we are working towards. Keep in mind that there is more to us than just the servers and their operating systems ;)

I see no reason that NT should in any way be connected to what Deb says, nor do I understand your hostility toward the idea even if it were to happen - it makes no sense.

If your favorite Chevy dealer decided to start selling Fords as well, would you go find a new Chevy dealer?[nbsp][nbsp]Besides, the only reason he might even consider selling Fords would be because of a high demand for Ford-specific features that simply do not work or are not as secure on a Chevy - though the Chevy will of course run better and last longer. But Fords will look nicer longer (better body) and to some drivers, this is more important. It's all a matter of opinion.

And I'm sure they would separate the two divisions, with separate parts centers, repair garages, and administrators for each side... ;)

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Justin Nelson
FutureQuest Support

[Terra]

I agree with Charles:

NT + AutoMation == oxymoron

--
Terra
--I think I'm going to call my therapist now--
FutureQuest

[Deb]

New "Tools"

"Exploring and Learning"

"Practicing" To someone who has never had the opportunity to really learn or use PHP & MySQL together, these are considered new tools.[nbsp][nbsp]To TeRRa and Justin, PHP & MySQL are not "new tools" but to new members of this community, and to me, they are still "new tools".[nbsp][nbsp]I, personally have not had the time to learn how to really use PHP & MySQL together outside of what I read in these forums and what I see Justin and TeRRa building on the back side.[nbsp][nbsp]My comment was meant in such a way that implies -- If I wasn't sending payment reminders manually, I'd be reading this kewl lil PHP book that is sitting on my desk.[nbsp][nbsp]I would be in these forums exploring these new tools with the rest of those here that are still learning just like I did not so many months ago :)

Deb
[nbsp]--
[nbsp][nbsp]One man's garbage is another man's treasure.
[This message has been edited by Deb (edited 12-21-99)]

[heath]

If your favorite Chevy dealer decided to start selling Fords as well, would you go find a new Chevy dealer?[nbsp][nbsp]Besides, the only reason he might even consider selling Fords would be because of a high demand for Ford-specific features that simply do not work or are not as secure on a Chevy - though the Chevy will of course run better and last longer. But Fords will look nicer longer (better body) and to some drivers, this is more important. It's all a matter of opinion.
You are doing more than selling - you are servicing.[nbsp][nbsp]Your analogy makes my point crystal clear:

If my jam-up, out of this world, super brilliant HONDA dealer decided that he wanted to start working on 1910 Model T's, you'd be correct in assuming I'd be troubled, and you'd be correct in assuming I'd try like crazy to talk him out of it, and you'd be correct to assume I'll laugh like crazy when his assanine decision makes all his hair turn grey and fall out.

Heath

[hearts]

-- automation -- computerized service.

*not a comfortable word for me*

however, everyone else is doing it, it is nothing new.

I probably won't even notice a difference. I value and appreciate the tech support the most... as long as that never changes, then i am happy.

Good luck with it Terra.


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hearts
-----
Heartistic Wishes[nbsp][nbsp][nbsp][nbsp][nbsp][nbsp][nbsp][nbsp]www.heartisticwishes.com (http://www.heartisticwishes.com)[nbsp][nbsp]

[pdstein]

Terra, Deb, and Justin,

I completely understand and agree with your efforts to further automate the "mundane" aspects of running FQuest.[nbsp][nbsp]The less time you have to put into repetitious tasks like setting up accounts, adding additional services, and billing, the more time you will have to provide personalized tech support and to work on future projects.

Keep up the good work!

[sheila]

I completely understand and agree with your efforts to further automate the "mundane" aspects of running FQuest.[nbsp][nbsp]The less time you have to put into repetitious tasks like setting up accounts, adding additional services, and billing, the more time you will have to provide personalized tech support and to work on future projects. Very well put. I'm surprised there would be much discussion about it. It is to everyone's best interest that repetitive tasks, which involve no direct interaction with the client, be automated. Clearly it is a benefit to the client to free up some of the time admin/staff would spend on such things, so that they can give us *more* attention! ;)

[DB]

I have to admit my heart skipped a beat when I read the post about introducing NT servers on FQ. I have a client who is hosted on an NT server and it gives me nothing but headaches (doesn't help that tech support over there seems to only work one day a month). I've practically begged them to move to a Unix server, but no joy. The sad part is they are paying top dollar for the "service." Their reasons for choosing the host were:

1) "NT is what the office LAN runs on." So? The web server isn't part of their network.

2) "The hosting company is local." Like they are ever going to drive over to the NOC.

3) "Our network admin likes them." He's never developed a website, that's why they hired me. I wonder if he gets a kickback?

4) "They work well enough." No they don't, on three occasions I haven't been able to upload files (I can log in, but I'm denied permission to upload). All three times they say they have fixed the problem. And I've yet to get something as simple as a Hello World CGI to run for more than a day.

Gee... this thread was about automation, wasn't it? Sorry for getting off topic, just haven't had very good experiences with NT. But automation is a good thing. But automation is a good thing. But automation is a good thing. But automation is a good thing. Oops... stuck button. ;)


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--Tom aka DiamondBack
[nbsp][nbsp]http://diamond-back.com

[Dan Kaplan]

Tom,

I'll venture further off the path (aka the topic) with you:

I just saved a client over $400 a year by moving them to FutureQueset from an NT service![nbsp][nbsp]On top of the price, they were not at all happy with the service there.[nbsp][nbsp]I thought it was kind of amusing when I discovered accidentally that I could access any directory of 70+ accounts on the server and view the contents of any file, all with a seemingly generic login I was given.[nbsp][nbsp]I told the SysAdmin of this security whole, and his response was that I don't know very much about servers...[nbsp][nbsp]I don't deny that's true, but this case was certainly an exception!

Good night,
D-ismayed

p.s. It was a local hosting company for them, too.

[DB]

Dan... I'm beginning to wonder if maybe this is the norm for NT hosts. I have a new client who wants to host their site with the "free" webspace their ISP gives them (rut-ro). First I went to the ISP's website where I found they use NT (just shoot me now) but no useful info. Next I called tech support and explained I was creating a site for one of their customers and needed some info. Talked to a very friendly guy who was able to give me the FTP log-in info, but when I started asking about CGI and mail forms he got very quiet. So I explained what CGI was and asked if it was supported on their servers... he said he "didn't know" because he had only been there for two weeks. O-tay... was there anyone I could talk to who might know? "Sorry, I'm the only one here." Great, and this was during business hours on a week day, I wonder who handles tech support on the weekends... the janitor perhaps (he might have better answers). Best he could do was give his e-mail addy and ask me to send all my questions there and he would get back to me (hasn't yet).

Yet another tale of incompetence and why I love FQ. Now if I can only convince my new client that it's worth spending a few dollars more to be on a "real host."
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--Tom aka DiamondBack
[nbsp][nbsp]http://diamond-back.com