Preventing Server Overloads [Archive]

flowersource

07-31-1999, 10:34 AM

Deb,
A very well written message, and welcome news to most of us, I am sure.

Not only does your message point out to all of us the importance of 'cleaning up' our server files/scripts and to monitor our usage, it shows your concern for us smaller, struggling 'commercial' sites. (I would guess the majority of your customers)

We all have different needs from our host, for example I place at the top of my list UPTIME... I don't need nor can I accept viewers/potential customers finding my site down, where as some other users may have a different priority, such as development tools, etc...

You have made the right decisions on this one.
Thank all of you for for your hard work.

Mike

hearts

07-31-1999, 02:53 PM

Hey Deb,

In my ignorance.. i feel a slight panic, because I am not quite sure what all this means and how we are to know if we are using too much CGI/resources .. and how do we know about the bandwidth we are using cuz of e-mail? *I never thought of that*

I totally agree with your decisions, and understand the logic of protecting your clients. I just do not understand how this really limits us.

If your site receives a large amount of hits and is over 50% CGI then we may be contacting you concerning excessive CPU usage

my e-mail greeting site runs on CGI.. I have one script that makes my site work.

I have been working very hard this project, but now this makes me feel like I might not be able to do this.. I want to gain popularity with my site.. so, does this mean I will not be able to afford that and that i possibly could end up having to leave FQ?

I am well within my limits.. just fearing my future goals.

------------------
hearts
-----
Heartistic Wishes[nbsp][nbsp][nbsp][nbsp][nbsp][nbsp][nbsp][nbsp]www.heartisticwishes.com (http://www.heartisticwishes.com)[nbsp][nbsp]

[This message has been edited by hearts (edited 07-31-99)]

Charles Capps

07-31-1999, 05:26 PM

Boy, I'm glad I'm not one of those sites... Yet.[nbsp][nbsp]*fires off an email*
------------------
http://flare.solareclipse.net
Avon: "You really do believe in taking risks, don't you?"
Tarrant: "Calculated risks."
Avon: "Calculated on what?[nbsp][nbsp]Your fingers?"
-- Blake's Seven, Ultraworld

Justin

07-31-1999, 06:30 PM

Hey hearts,

You have nothing to worry about :)[nbsp][nbsp]The problem is when a site is pulling 20+ gigs / month of data transfer and most of it is CGI. 20 gigs is a lot no matter how you look at it, but when that's 20 gigs of dynamically generated content - think of the CPU usage involved in that, and consider the other 200 or so sites on that same server :(

BTW - I knew you were going to post, worried about your greetings site - but you have a long ways to go before you reach the point of having to worry :)
I just do not understand how this really limits us.
It doesn't - the limits have always been there, just not strictly enforced. But when we realized that being "nice" was causing instability in the servers, it was time to draw the line and start enforcing those limits. There are only a very small handfull of sites that are pushing these limits, and they have been/will be contacted.

Hope this helps ease your mind :)

------------------
Justin Nelson
FutureQuest Support

Bi4Be

07-31-1999, 07:49 PM

I feel like I am in the same boat with Hearts, at first paranoid and in frantic panic. But thanks for putting my mind at ease, Justin. And Hearts, thanks for posting in ignorance first and saving me all that typing. ;)
[nbsp]

Charles Capps

07-31-1999, 08:26 PM

Justin: My problem is that I am soon going to be one of those...[nbsp][nbsp]A PHP and Perl generated site, and if the third generation of the new site is anywhere as popular as the first and second, I'll be pulling really close to that 20 gigs...[nbsp][nbsp]:(

Terra

07-31-1999, 09:23 PM

We have never wanted to turn sites away or boot them off - *never*!

Day by day, I have to watch the servers as a whole and make adjustments to ensure quality delivery - something that has become increasingly difficult with the 10Gig+ **heavy** CGI'd domains...[nbsp][nbsp]Elswhere in these forums I wrote 'The life of a CGI' which details the high cost of CGI and the ramifications...[nbsp][nbsp]There is only so much a server can be asked to provide, no matter how well it is designed and maintained...[nbsp][nbsp]The quality of service that FutureQuest provides was becoming tarnished with the downtimes and general slowness (80%network/20%server related)...[nbsp][nbsp]The network issues is in relation to the Internet as a whole and not much can be done at that point other than making sure our pipes to the backbone are stable...[nbsp][nbsp]The other 20% has now become our primary focus, and fixing these problems has become paramount...

Bandwidth and CGI resources have almost no relation to each other...[nbsp][nbsp]A 5 Gig bandwidth site can easily turn a server to mush if the scripts used are extremely heavy in generating their output...[nbsp][nbsp]On the flipside, a 30Gig site with little or no CGI can easily be delivered by our servers without blinking an eye...[nbsp][nbsp]Now combine high bandwidth with heavy CGI, and the results can be drastic for *any* CPU that you run it on...

Now we come to the next level, as we are now working on an intermediate step between the Community Servers and Dedicated Servers...[nbsp][nbsp]I would like to provide an intermediate step for those that need more than shared, but less than dedicated...[nbsp][nbsp]These will be our HC (High Capacity) servers which will be guaranteed a low number of domains hosted per each, yet still using our FQuest core xdom structure...

I cannot give any further details on the HC servers yet, but rest assured that I'm focusing my energies on their design this weekend...

Nevertheless, the fact remains that there are a few domains that are harming the servers and they will be asked to seek out other options, as the HC and Dedicated offerings are not yet ready for prime time...

The decision is soley based on 'The needs of the many'...

--
Andrew Gillespie
CTO/Systems Administrator
FutureQuest.net

hearts

08-01-1999, 01:51 AM

Hey Justin, Thank you.. I knew you would be thinking of me! Yes, I got paranoid, cuz I didn't know what this all meant, and I totally agree with the decision. I just didn't understand the impact on us as for limits.

As with anyone's generosity and kindness, trust is always violated... and I don't think FQ should feel bad for having to "enforce" the rules.

The only thing I really understand is building a website, I do not understand or have knowledge on how this effects the server's resources... in a panic of ignorance, I shut down my unit and pondered this off and on all day.. asking myself, what am I to do. I have been treated wonderfully by strangers, the most important people I do business with. Their kindness has generated favors that were never owed to me and their time and curtosy (sp?) has no match.

I have wondered about the internally redirected domains, how bad am I stressing the server? what is it I can do to minimize? ... I got to asking myself if I needed to purchase three separate hosting packages. I have been very concerned and very worried.

My initial reaction, cuz of my lack of knowledge and understanding was.. FQ always brags on not having any gray areas, they are so upfront with us about everything, and remembering when the bandwidth limits were lowered, and that caused mass confusion and anger.. and thought, oh no.. FQ has turned into one of those hosts they warn us to stay away from.

I understand you Justin, when you say this was done because of abuse .. however, this doesn't help me understand what kind of impact desinging site with CGI usage, emails.. all that stuff that was referred to in that well written explaination. It makes me paranoid now..

Please do not think I am angry in any way, because I am not. I want to be sure to do what is right .. and need a better understanding. This is NO way changes how I feel about FQ at all..

Terra, MY GOAL is to hit that level of concern.. ;)
Now we come to the next level, as we are now working on an intermediate step between the Community Servers and Dedicated Servers...[nbsp][nbsp]I would like to provide an intermediate step for those that need more than shared, but less than dedicated...[nbsp][nbsp]These will be our HC (High Capacity) servers which will be guaranteed a low number of domains hosted per each, yet still using our FQuest core xdom structure...

thank you ....
------------------
hearts
-----
Heartistic Wishes[nbsp][nbsp][nbsp][nbsp][nbsp][nbsp][nbsp][nbsp]www.heartisticwishes.com (http://www.heartisticwishes.com)[nbsp][nbsp]

Deb

08-01-1999, 03:27 AM

Something to remember... FutureQuest is a developer's server.[nbsp][nbsp]We not only encourage you to develop, and try to help you along, but we do our best to make sure the tools are available to you with each full package to allow you to do so.[nbsp][nbsp]The majority of the sites on the FQ servers utilize CGI, PHP, mySQL, etc... there is nothing wrong with this at all![nbsp][nbsp]

A well planned site and it's dynamic content is what makes it great.

In simple terms --- many of you have added search engines and link directories to your web sites -- but if you were to try develop Altavista.com we wouldn't be able to host you on the community servers.[nbsp][nbsp]It wouldn't be good for your site or the other sites on the server.[nbsp][nbsp]Altavista wouldn't even consider coming to FutureQuest to host their engine -- imagine what it would do to HeartsWeb if Altavista were sitting right next to it on our Dual PII 450... ouch.

What we are referring to is two things:

1.[nbsp][nbsp]EXTREMELY heavy sites -- sites that affect the delivery of every other site on the server.[nbsp][nbsp]Only naivety dictates that a community host could allow these types of web sites.

and

2. Accounts that are essentially stealing by only paying for a Basic package but utilizing the resources of a higher package.[nbsp][nbsp]Allowing this has gotten out of hand and would only be poor business sense.[nbsp][nbsp]If we have allocated 10 gigabytes of hard drive space and sold enough packages to fill up that 10GB -- all should be fine.[nbsp][nbsp]But if everyone is using more space then they ordered -- well simple math states this will cause a problem for everyone sharing the drive.[nbsp][nbsp]We can not allow that.

As I said in my announcement -- 99% of you have nothing to worry about.[nbsp][nbsp]There is no reason to disable this or that if we haven't come to you and explained that it is hurting something.

HTH
Deb
[This message has been edited by Deb (edited 08-01-99)]

Stephen

08-01-1999, 03:52 AM

I'm all for observing bandwidth and resource limits. Nothing more annoying than knowing that while you're personally using 1/20 of your paid-for resources someone else is using far more than their allotted share--so that not only are you effectively footing the bill for them, but they're slowing you down to boot!

As I understand it, the problem with cgi-resource intensive sites is in how they calculate what goes into the page they wish to serve. At the one end is the non-cgi served page--the static html for which no calculation is necessary. Then there's the page that identifies the user through a cookie, and, based on that identification, merrily goes off and performs 12 quantum chromodynamic calculations to ascertain which greeting phrase should be served before the visitor's name. Boy, and it's a tempting thing to want to do in the effort to impress your visitors.

Anyway, I was just responding to Terra's observation about cgi resources and served bandwidth being two entirely different aspects of the problem discussed in this thread. If I've missed the point, then please, someone set me straight.

--Former quantum stochastic calculator (I kid you not).

P.S. hearts, I think you worry way too much. Which is ironic, because I suspect that the people who really abuse the system probably never read these forums (and therefore sleep quite soundly...).

Terra

08-01-1999, 04:16 AM

Stephen: Bullseye!

--
Terra
--Finally someone that truly understands me-- ;)
FutureQuest

hearts

08-01-1999, 08:26 AM

I gotta *defend* myself here....

I worry most when I don't understand something. *simple* And I am not ashamed to confess lack of knowledge, therefore.. lack of understanding! ;)

Thanks Deb, Terra and Justin for the assurances! :)

Dean B

08-01-1999, 09:56 AM

--Former quantum stochastic calculator

is that painful ?

:)

Justin

08-01-1999, 10:13 AM

Hearts,

I think you need to understand just how *huge* some of these sites are. Your greeting cards script is relatively simple in comparison to the UBB. I'm sure these forums right here use a *lot* more resources than your sites do. Now also consider that this UBB is very light compared to most medium and larger UBB's (think of Scriptkeeper.com - we have had some much larger than Scriptkeeper's).

In other words, the ones we are concerned with are the really big boys who really should be on a dedicated or, at minimum, a high capacity server.

BTW - I'm all for an all dynamic site - I love writing dynamic content using Perl/PHP/mySQL, sizing form fields based on which browser is being used (hint: our order forms), storing color preferences in a cookie and applying it throughout the site, and other silly stuff like that - all of which would use resources. But when you get into serious sites that receive thousands of pageviews per day with all of that CPU overhead, it becomes too much.

HTH

------------------
Justin Nelson
FutureQuest Support

Stephen

08-01-1999, 02:14 PM

Hey, hearts,

Don't get me wrong. I wasn't knocking you. I like it when people ask for clearer explanations in these forums. Sometimes, when the subject matter seems transparent enough, I chip in with my own slant on the matter at hand. But most of the time I'm waiting for someone else to chip in with the golden nugget that'll help me become a better programmer, a better webmaster. Just like everyone else, I'm sure!
[This message has been edited by Stephen (edited 08-01-99)]

hearts

08-01-1999, 04:45 PM

Hey Stephen.. I just have one *little* question... how did you know i didn't sleep last night? ;)

and i wasn't offended at all.. i promise! :)

Rich

08-01-1999, 05:11 PM

Welcome to the dark side

I applaud FutureQuest's decision regarding allocating charges. In reality everyone agreed to pay these charges should their site incur them. The attempt to be 'nice' by not billing and collecting from those that use the extra services results in overtaxed systems that cannot be relieved because funding was not collected for needed upgrades, moving, reapportioning, etc. So the ones that suffer are those that no one was 'nice' to. :)

The next challenge will be to ensure that the allocation measurements and charges appropriately reflect overall requirements. Currently these metrics are based on disk storeage and bandwidth. The equation would become much more accurate and predictable if cpu usage could also be measured and allocated a charge. This is something not widely used today but should become more critical over the next couple of years.

I also like the idea of intermediate solutions between the community servers and the dedicated solution. I'm sure medium-large sites would like a hosted solution in the $100-300 range without having to jump up to the hosted solution. This should also help customer retention since it provides a gradual progression ladder in terms of performance and cost. (Any sudden cost jumps always provide justification for re-pricing all services with all sources. Gradual increases seem to be met with less tendency to reconsider all available sources. -- This has been my humble observations, anyway.

Rich
-- "If you are worried about this issue, it probably does not apply to you. If you're not worried, you probably should be because it probably does."

MrBlunt

08-02-1999, 12:56 PM

Hmm...

I am wondering how close this applies to my site. Please don't tell me I have to move to another host! :(

How soon will the dedicated servers be available?

SneakyDave

08-02-1999, 05:18 PM

No offense, but I'm thinking twice about using FQ as a new site coming online that is heavily CGI based.

First it was the bandwidth changes, now, its something else. Although I don't believe I'm YET in the 1%, who knows, we all hope we're in that position a year from now.

Didn't FQ gain ANYTHING by getting the new link? From what was advertised, it seemed like we'd have "all the bandwidth we'd need"?

I don't mean to complain, but what's going to happen next?

<editted to explain myself>
[This message has been edited by SneakyDave (edited 08-02-99)]

Justin

08-02-1999, 05:50 PM

Hey Dave,

It's not the bandwidth itself - a site pulling 20 gigs of transfer a month of either static HTML or file downloads is not really as much of a problem. But take 20 gigs of CGI generated content, and you have a different story.

It's the CPU usage that hurts - when a site generates that much data, it needs it's own CPU, or at minimum a high capacity server with only a few sites on it.

Hope this helps.

------------------
Justin Nelson
FutureQuest Support

SneakyDave

08-02-1999, 06:42 PM

I understand that, but there probably needs to be a better clarifcation between bandwidth and CPU usage. It seems like most sites hosted by FQ may not know the difference before its too late, and they have to scale down their systems, or find new solutions.

SneakyDave

08-02-1999, 06:48 PM

Maybe I'm making a big deal out of nothing. As long as everybody follows their package rules on space and bandwidth, I guess we don't have anything to worry about, right?

Justin

08-02-1999, 07:38 PM

As long as one does the following, all should be ok:

1) Keep your site within all bandwidth/disk space/etc limits,
2) Keep CPU usage within reasonable limits

#2 is difficult to monitor at the moment, but there will be (within the next 2 or 3 months) process accounting software where, from your CNC, you will be able to see the average CPU usage of your domain.

These rules have always been in effect as far as CPU usage - in the TOS ( http://www.futurequest.net/tos.php ), you will see this, and I
Scripts Each account comes with its own cgi-bin in addition to the community cgi-bin. You are free to use any scripts you wish, however we reserve the right to disable any script that effects normal server operation. Scripts that are commonly known for causing server disruption include: cgi-based chat scripts, auctions, and banner exchanges
This has been there all along - it's nothing new. If your domain puts more load on the server than it should be, and is affecting the performance of other sites, there is a problem and something will need to be done to rectify the problem. This can be as simple as optimizing your scripts to be more resource friendly, or it may involve moving to a dedicated server.

In light of all of this, seeing that there is a huge difference between community hosting for $20 / month and dedicated hosting for $350+ / month, we will be introducing High-capacity servers as a step in the middle, in hopes that there can be a migration path for those who are in that middle area.

------------------
Justin Nelson
FutureQuest Support

SneakyDave

08-02-1999, 07:43 PM

That's what I mean, it seems like your putting limits, that can't currently be measured accurately, on everybody.

I'm done with this subject.

Deb

08-02-1999, 07:51 PM

Changing packages, raising prices, lowering limits, etc is always complicated... but what we have stated is not complicated at all... I think many of you are putting more into this then what there really is.

In its most basic of terms...

1. If you purchase 25 MB of space -- You are not allowed to utilize more than 25 MB of space unless you pay for it. (a number of Basic and Silver packages were caught utilizing over 300 MB of space)

2. If you purchase 5 GB of Bandwidth -- You are not allowed to utilize more than 5 GB of bandwidth w/o paying for it. (a number of sites were caught utilizing more than triple their allotted bandwidth)

3. If your scripts/site is causing other sites on the server to have problems or not be able to function then we can not allow these scripts to continue running on the server.

4. If your site is double or triple (or more) than the largest package we offer -- then we can not possibly try to host the site on the community servers (this is why packages are developed and why we try to stand by what they offer)

Nothing has changed outside of the fact that we are now being forced to enforce the above.[nbsp][nbsp]A serious violation of the servers and the packages offered has occurred over the past couple of months.[nbsp][nbsp]FutureQuest tries its best to stand by everything we offer.[nbsp][nbsp]If nothing else this should show within things like our uptime guarantee.[nbsp][nbsp]What good does it do us to say we will not host any more than x amount of sites on any one server if all of those sites are allowed to use triple their allotted limits?[nbsp][nbsp]It will not help anyone on the server, not even the one that is abusing it :(

Deb
--
[nbsp]If you pay for two apples... how many apples can you take from the store?

Deb

08-03-1999, 01:12 AM

Actually to our surprise! your site is within its limits and has settled into the server quite nicely :D

http://www.MrBlunt.com is a prime example of an extremely popular and large website that has been built and maintained properly.

Congrats :)

Deb

(darned bold tags :þ )
[This message has been edited by Deb (edited 08-02-99)]

MrBlunt

08-03-1999, 01:39 AM

Thanks Deb,

My Monday has been hectic enough. That would have threw me over the edge.[nbsp][nbsp]Of course I'm always willing to modify or remove any CGI/program that causes server problems. Terra has been very supportive. You two are great people.

:)

Terence

08-03-1999, 10:27 PM

how do you know how much CPU resources you are using? How do WE know how to measure it acucrately?

Hopefully, that will change soon.[nbsp][nbsp]Justin said:

but there will be (within the next 2 or 3 months) process accounting software where, from your CNC, you will be able to see the average CPU usage of your domain.

hearts

08-04-1999, 01:21 AM

I think many of you are putting more into this then what there really is.

This may be how it seems to you, but for us that don't understand how these 'enforced' rules will apply, yes, it is gonna cause questions.

I keep referring to 'enforced' to remind people reading this, that FQ's generosity has been abused.

When the word 'limit' comes about, suddenly those of us who do not understand what all this REALLY MEANS to us, here again, we will raise questions and concerns, because we suddenly feel confined, lost creative freedom.

It makes me paranoid now to want to use CGI or anything else, because in reference to Sneaky's convo, how do you know how much CPU resources you are using? How do WE know how to measure it acucrately?

For those of us that do not TRULY understand this.... will seek some kind of understanding, not just assurances.

PS... DEB, don't ask Logan -- my 2-year old, that question... hehehe.. he would have aten one b4 the check out! ;)[nbsp]
------------------
hearts
-----
Heartistic Wishes[nbsp][nbsp][nbsp][nbsp][nbsp][nbsp][nbsp][nbsp]www.heartisticwishes.com (http://www.heartisticwishes.com)[nbsp][nbsp]

kickster

08-04-1999, 11:54 AM

Hi Deb
I have a web page on Icom, My account expires next month.
I love to transfer the site to FQ, However, my site
gets about half a million hits per month (to read news). Icom
hasnt complain about the usage yet. I am using very little
Cgi Scripts!
Is it safe to come to FQ?

Deb

08-04-1999, 03:21 PM

Every site acts differently... it would be impossible to say w/o seeing the site and knowing what is behind it making it tick.[nbsp][nbsp]As far as the information you have given above... I would have to agree with Bi4Be ;)

Bi4Be

08-05-1999, 01:58 AM

Now this would not really be my place to say anything, so FQ has final say. 1/2 a million sounds like alot, but when you divide that by 30 days it is about 16-17 thousand a day... pretty much equivalent to the www.MrBlunt.com (http://www.MrBlunt.com) site's hits if I remember correctly. (Sorry Mr. Blunt, I admit I looked at your stats page!!!)

pdstein

08-05-1999, 05:41 PM

Deb,

I applaud your efforts to improve the reliability of your servers and completely agree with the need to enforce the limits we signed up with.

I think the key to making things work smoothly and keeping everyone happy is simply to avoid surprises.[nbsp][nbsp]Everyone needs to understand the rules and how they will be enforced.[nbsp][nbsp]It's pretty clear from this thread that lax enforcement of the limits acually breeds confusion and even animoisity as limits may *appear* to be arbitrarily enforced.

As you begin to enforce limits on disk space, bandwidth, and CPU usage it would be extremely helpful if email could automatically be sent warning us if we are approaching or exceding limits, informing us of the remedies available to us (package upgrades and other options), and stating plainly what steps will taken if limits are exceded.[nbsp][nbsp]If everyone is well informed, there will be fewer surprises and fewer misunderstandings.

Two questions I have are:
1) Does the disk space calculation include MySQL?
2) How are we supposed to know if we are exceding CPU usage?[nbsp][nbsp]We need limits to be clearly stated and some sort of reporting tool.

Finally, I know I have the benefit of hindsight here, but I think it would have been wise to hold off on this announcement until the solutions (high capacity shared servers and a CPU usage calculator) were available.[nbsp][nbsp]Until then, I hope you won't give anyone the boot without a place to go.

- Paul

Terra

08-05-1999, 07:18 PM

I would like to take a moment and speak candidly about this whole topic...[nbsp][nbsp]This is not an official FQuest endorsed statement, only my personal feelings...

<<Personal thoughts>>
Once again, we are thrust in a difficult situation...[nbsp][nbsp]FQuest has always strived to be up front with our clients to make sure they know what is going on...

The question is 'To open our mouths / or not to'...[nbsp][nbsp]Ever since we made the statement, our email boxes have been clogged with FUD (Fear/Uncertainty/Doubt) drastically reducing our available support times helping those with needs beyond resource usage questions...

Now we are paying for our mistake of 'Keeping the Clients informed'...[nbsp][nbsp]It's a truly sad situation when we do what we feel is right, only to be chastised publicly and privately...

'The needs of the many' statement was done to cure some major problems we were encountering with certain domains using way above what they purchased...[nbsp][nbsp]It was informational, and a public 'advisory' to all that they need to check their stats and CNC to assure they would not run into problems when the quota system, I announced the other day, went into full affect.

Invoking all the accounting tools will occur through several stages of development and rolled out piece meal until all modules are done.[nbsp][nbsp]We will continue to keep you informed, as we have been, via the forums...

DiskSpace: CNC module is being reworked to show true block usage of the domain and also MySQL databases as well...[nbsp][nbsp]Enforcement will be handled by the kernel level quota sub-system... The quota system will email you if you have gone over your allowed disk space and offer you a grace period to clean it up as I stated in my previous post about the quota system

CPU: This is **very** difficult, and I'm hashing out the details of how to pull this off as this ability is reserved for the Systems Administrator...[nbsp][nbsp]Right now my primary tool is studying the TOP program and watching it closely to see who pops to the top most often... When someone is maxing the CPU resources they will receive an email from us informing them and making them aware of the situation...

BandWidth: This will be calculated from the RAW log files.. and you do have access to the stats which are updated daily... the stats show you the majority of the bandwidth being used...

POP: The CNC EMail_MGR will be reworked to invoke the limits, plus several nifty new features that have been high on the request list

As you can see, all of this takes time - but as a host serving the needs of the many, we must clamp down on domains that are ruining the party for everyone else...

I do not wish to be discouraged in keeping our 'Keeping the Client informed',[nbsp][nbsp]I never want to lose the personal touch everyone has held dear about FutureQuest.net...

We can either be a business watching the bottom line profits/loss OR we can be a partner helping you to forward not only your success and ours as well...

I prefer the latter... :)
<</Personal thoughts>>

--
Andrew Gillespie
The guy next door

hearts

08-05-1999, 08:07 PM

Now we are paying for our mistake of 'Keeping the Clients informed'...[nbsp][nbsp]It's a truly sad situation when we do what we feel is right, only to be chastised publicly and privately...

Terra, Deb...

I don't read your e-mails .. but from this thread, I don't think you are being chastised.. Since you have always been so open with us about most aspects of the company and how it is you can better serve us.. by your example we have become more open with you.

On a personal note:
To many of us, you have become an inspiration, whether it was encouraging us to learn more, or simply by your example.[nbsp][nbsp]You have become part of our lives and you make business seem less like business and more like coming home.. I feel secure where I am hosted at, I have a community that is available to laugh with, to take serious, to value and to encourage me.. and to learn how to improve my efforts and gain and excel.

I am not the know it all on the net, so I will word it this way... How many other hosting companies can say they are valued by their customers and get as many compliments on their service.

In response to Terra's unofficial FQ notice..
all I can say on my own behalf is that the "limits" that were announced only freaked me out because of lack of understanding of CPU usage and what we are truly capable of doing. This confuses me.. and would rather cooperate to the fullest than be one that is asked to leave FQ cuz of negligence or whatever.[nbsp][nbsp]

The limits were always there, and I have been aware.. but I felt with this announcement that some how we were being limited more than we were understanding.

My concern also comes from checking out other hosting companies, in the days that Justin and I would tear apart their TOS.. it made me worried that this is how things were.

YOU people NOT shying away from my concerns and everyone elses assures me that we will have the same type of service we have come to depend on.. that this is in no way a deprivation, just an enforecement of what was already there. You admitted that you were not paying close attention to what was really happening.. it takes a lot to be honest when you make a mistake. (another good example you present to us)

I am aware that this is simply my opinion stated here, and I am not the majority of anything.. but felt that somehow, this would make a difference..

thank you....
------------------
hearts
-----
Heartistic Wishes[nbsp][nbsp][nbsp][nbsp][nbsp][nbsp][nbsp][nbsp]www.heartisticwishes.com (http://www.heartisticwishes.com)[nbsp][nbsp]

Melprophet

08-06-1999, 12:49 AM

Andrew:
Now we are paying for our mistake of 'Keeping the Clients informed'...[nbsp][nbsp]It's a truly sad situation when we do what we feel is right, only to be chastised publicly and privately...

I read the whole thread with interest and wanted to pipe in with my own opinion..And that's all it is, just my own opinion.

I have to confess that for a 10-14 day period in late July I was a little displeased with the sluggishness of my site, and the complaints I was getting from my visitors. But I didn't say anything here or in e-mail because I felt confident that it was a temporary thing. I already knew you were aware of the problem and for the first time after going through 2 previous hosts, I had absolutely no thoughts of looking elsewhere. Why? Because FQ takes care of its customers better than any company I've ever been involved with, web host or otherwise. You came through as always and I personally appreciate that.

Andrew, you didn't make a mistake by keeping your clients informed. Quite the opposite in fact. I can only speak for myself here, but I have to say that I'm beyond happy with FQ and it's easy to get used to that feeling, especially since it's near impossible to find a web host that does even half the job you folks do. When anything like this comes about, it's also real easy to become concerned when the tree gets shaken a bit. You get all comfy with the way things are, then see an announcement with some terminology you may or may not fully understand and some concern creeps in as to how it may effect you, if at all.

If anything, the concern for the most part is a testimony to the value people place on FQ...After all, if nobody cared, they'd just shrug their shoulders, not bother asking any questions and either wait for something to happen or move on. It's a shame you guys have probably gotten some unpleasant e-mail, but beyond that it seems to me you've just got a bunch of people here who truly want to understand what this means because they want so much to continue as FQ clients..Even if it means trying to make sense of technical stuff they'd otherwise not even bother with.

I really appreciate the fact that you do what is right. I'm sure you've gotten your share of less than pleasant reactions to all this, but you did what you needed to do, when you needed to do it. And keeping your clients informed is one of the many things that separates FQ from other hosts and I think most people appreciate that.

Mel

Ron

08-06-1999, 01:59 AM

Doing what is right - rather than what is expediant - can sometimes be uncomfortable, Terra. But doing what is right only when it's comfortable to do so proves very little. I think you did the right thing in being honest and forthright with everyone, and I know it's appreciated.

Now all we need to do is get our politicians to follow your excellent example... :)

tedloh

08-06-1999, 02:19 AM

I think Deb, Andrew and Justin are suitably grateful for all the people who have been supporting them in the forums, and I want to add my name to that list, but keep it short because I've been writing too much lately.

Being a computer administrator can be a big pain, but this team does the best it can, and keeps us informed.[nbsp][nbsp]That's all I ask of my host.[nbsp][nbsp]We have hiccups because we keep striving for the latest this and that - that's normal - if we don't, we simply fall behind.

In short, you guys do whatever you think is best.[nbsp][nbsp]You'll know soon enough if it's been unpopular, but I think in regards to this issue you have done the right thing, even if the monitoring tools aren't available yet (and I bet both tools and info appear over the next few months).

Just my two baht ... oops... cents...

------------------
Ted (Chief Do-It-All)
Tygre Systems Co Ltd
Bangkok, Thailand, Land of Smiles :) :)
http://www.tygresystems.com (work in progress)
ted@tygresystems.com

hearts

08-06-1999, 02:34 AM

Now all we need to do is get our politicians to follow your excellent example... :)

on a lighter note:
Our politicians in the US are too much like the other hosts! They say one thing.. false campaign promises.. don't care about us citizens.. and ignore the he!! out of ya! ;)

------
And Tedloh.. YUP, you write ALOT! ;)
------

Mel.. well put! especially this part...
it seems to me you've just got a bunch of people here who truly want to understand what this means because they want so much to continue as FQ clients..Even if it means trying to make sense of technical stuff they'd otherwise not even bother with.

-----

anyways.. I think we have beaten a dead horse. Thanks FQ for the honest, dependable, UNautomated service. --- and to SIX i love ya baybeeeeeeeee! ;)

f150guy

08-06-1999, 02:43 PM

Hmm, this makes me wonder where I stand...

Last I checked, I was around 20GB of transfer and 100MB of disk space - right on the cusp of what I signed up for. (in fact, I was planning on upgrading the account this month!)

My site does use the UBB, nearly 2500 members to date.

Additionally, the banner ad rotation uses SSI and a CGI script.

Frankly, if I am one of the problems, I would be very disappointed to have to leave FutureQuest.[nbsp][nbsp]After all, the reason I chose you a couple months back was because of your competitive pricing on bandwidth, features and flexibility made available to the developer and reputation that you happily host UBB sites...

Anyway, that's my $.02

Steve
Webmaster - F-150 Online
http://www.f150online.com

frankc

08-06-1999, 04:19 PM

For my .02 worth:

DITTO the positive stuff.[nbsp][nbsp]We rely on you three to make the tough decisions and that most importantly includes how one site affects others and enforcement of "whatcha buy is whatcha get".[nbsp][nbsp]Gee, DQ doesn't give me two M&M Blizzards (darn!) when I ask for and pay for one just to be gracious.[nbsp][nbsp]We *expect* those over their limits to be reminded and the limits fairly enforced.[nbsp][nbsp]Otherwise, everyone pays for it and suffers the consequences.

You give us GREAT service, and we deeply appreciate it.[nbsp][nbsp]That's why I moved my company website here after 3+ years elsewhere (where I was getting very good service; I know it's even better here, though).[nbsp][nbsp]I've no better way to acknowledge your hard work and quality service.

The only faux pas (sp?) was that FQ was measuring each site's CPU usage with a ruler that only FQ could see.[nbsp][nbsp]Now that it's been thrashed about a bit, we realize that if we'd infringed we'd have been notified.

All's well that ends well in FQ-land!
------------------
Frank
Hosanna! Lutheran Church www.hosannachurch.com (http://www.hosannachurch.com)
[nbsp]--and--
Pacesetter "Moving Message" Signs www.pace-setter.com (http://www.pace-setter.com)

Bi4Be

08-06-1999, 05:53 PM

Ugh! I have had enough of this already, lets get this over with. 44 messages and counting, peopl. Are we going to come back here and discuss this out like dumb fools forever?

My opinion out of all of this mushiness and cr@p (no, mushiness is not crap, that is why I said and crap):
Yes, yada yada, blah blah FQ is doing the right thing yada. The reason we make a big deal of everything is because we all have a subcontious fear of FQ turning to something different. Yada yada, this is really no big deal and the rules are just finally being enforced, blah blah. No biggie, yada yada, you will get an e-mail if you are over, most are not blah blah.

Now lets just stop e-mailing the nice people at FQ with out concerns, read this 44 message thread, and someone please add the "Reply" / "Post" buttons near the bottom of this page!

-Bi4Be

[This message has been edited by Bi4Be (edited 08-06-99)]