FQuest Alert: SIX downtime

[Terra]

Today at 2:42pm EST, SIX froze once again...

It appears that my fixes from the other day has not solved this particular problem as well... It is now apparent that the memory and/or motherboard is causing the problems... All systems were green at the time of failure... Load/Memory availability/Temperature/etc... Basically it was unloaded at the time...

I will be replacing SIX with all new hardware as soon as it arrives...

The server is currently being rebooted and checked out...

Our apologies for the inconvenience...

--
Andrew Gillespie
Systems Administrator
FutureQuest.net

[flowersource]

Do we have a clue when it will be back up?
Mike

[Deb]

About 10 to 15 minutes... We're having to do a manual reboot. Auto failed.

Deb
--
Pulling out the calculater

[hearts]

Terra, sorry to hear that, but atleast now you are certain of what needs to be done.

Hey Mikeeeeeeee.. how ya been? http://www.aota.net/ubb/smile.gif

[Charles Capps]

Are you sure that replacing the entire server is the best/only option? You mentioned that the motherboard wasn't liking the RAM (I've had one of those before) - perhaps replacing the RAM would be a more economical solution? And if it doesn't work out, ya can use it in the new server. ;-)

------------------
"Okay, so I'm not "SANE" so to speak, but uh... I'm the lovable kind of psycho"
solareclipse.net/ (http://solareclipse.net/)

[This message has been edited by Charles Capps (edited 03-31-99).]

[Terra]

It becomes a diminishing returns situation...

The amount of refunds that we are applying to everyone's account, for the 99.5% uptime guarantee (on SIX) is rapidly approaching 25% the cost of a new server...

It is a time issue, and instead of replacing pieces of hardware trying to isolate the problem it is best to just pull it offline and sort it out that way... This in effect causes more downtime (although scheduled), but we can not handle any more unscheduled downtime due to faulty hardware...

I also need to have a full blown test server right next to me, and for immediate spare parts or full server swapout...

It is very difficult to run servers that do a lot of dynamic content (CGI/PHP3/Perl/etc) and keep within the 3.5 hours a month of allowed unscheduled downtime... Technology breaks at the least opportune moment, and we are utilizing the best equipment available for Intel processors... The only other route we can go is to use Alpha or Sparc CPU's, but that greatly complicates things for developers... So we are stuck with the Intel P-II line right now until the AMD K-7's are released...

If you think our server are powerful now, you haven't seen **anything** yet till I get my hands on a CPU that I can actually unleash it's full power... Server downtime will be a thing of the past for us (not including network connectivity)...

This will probably debut as our 6th generation architecture... We are currently in our 3rd generation of design...

It will take time to save the money to build it, as it is quite costly... FQuest is a company that is built upon it's own revenues with no outside investment or loans... FQuest grows by it's own merits and capabilities... I hope everyone will stick around long enough to see the dreams of my design turn into operational capability...

--
Terra
--It only seemed like yesterday--
FutureQuest

[Paul]

Terra:

I'll be here till they shut lights out on us...

Call me anything but don't call me disloyal.

I'm gonna hang tough http://www.aota.net/ubb/smile.gif
-----------
Paul

[hearts]

1. how long will downtime be approx?
2. Financially speaking...

i ain't looking for a refund, so keep it....

3. That server you talk of.. kinda sounds like it is far down the road. (like a couple of years.)

anyways... here's to a brighter future, no promises http://www.aota.net/ubb/wink.gif

[Terra]

1) Will be in 2 stages
1a) Memory swap first with existing server (est 15min)
1b) Full server hardware swap (est 20-30 min)
**1a is happening because memory will be here first, before the other components

2) No can do, it becomes part of your invoice for a reduction in payment due... (Integrity in business is still good business)

3) --It only seemed like yesterday--

--Terra

[hearts]

I believe everyone is entitled to their opinion, I really do.. however let me ask you this?

Honestly, why do you think that they are NOT the best? Cuz they had some hardware probs? Cuz there was an incompatiblity prob?

Well, you could weigh it out like this...

1. Has he lied to you in any way?
2. Do you feel that this type of situation is only isolated with FQ and no other hosting company?
3. Do you believe you would get direct honest answers from another company as quickly and as openly as you do at FQ?

Personally, I feel the choice is yours, either way, and I also feel that if there is a serious concern you wish to have addressed, rather than trying to humiliate them infront of the community, that maybe you should have communicated with them in private via email.

-------------
hearts
-----

[DKG]

Boksoft,
I can fully understand your concern. In all honesty, my first reaction is identical to yours. (especially since I signed up Monday AM, and don't therefore feel the personal loyalty as much as those who have been with FQ much longer, then to find a change in TOS literally hours later...it has given me pause)
But, given a moment to reflect, it always comes back to what Hearts just said so well. I have little doubt that other servers, if they are upgrading service and leading the edge in server development, experience the same glitches. It gets just as ugly, but they hide it - some even deny it, blaming failures on things "outside their control".
What keeps me here even though I have nothing to lose in terms of $ or moving files is that at least I know what is going on and what to expect. And I think this openness speaks volumes about Andrew and Deb's integrity.
My only complaint with them is that they insist on not allowing us to forfeit our downtime refund when I personally would like to see it used to expedite repairs & upgrades :-).
I'll find a way. Even if it means upgrading my package beyond my needs. Or, finding out the specific components needed and having them delivered anonymously...?
I just want this business concept to work/succeed!
So, I'm staying unless it has a truly considerable affect on our site's functionality. I don't expect that to happen at all.

[hearts]

To you my dear friend, all I can do is say...
woooooooooooooooooooo hoooooooooo

P.S. You can take my portion of the refund and apply it to what you wish to annonymously deliver to their door. hummm.. since terra is so busy, maybe we should entertain deb by sending her a male stripper! http://www.aota.net/ubb/wink.gif

[Deb]

Thank you DKG and Hearts for your confidence. It, as always, is appreciated.

Boksoft, I do understand your discontent as well as that of the others who have and have not posted. Having a server that was only up 98.4% last month was *very* discontenting for us too! I had never thought we would come to being less then 99% and have always pushed ourselves to keep it above 99.5%. That is one of the reasons we have the guarantee program the way we do. It forces us to be extremely aware of every single second.

I've surfed the net and viewed an enormous amount of 99% uptime guarantees. To date I, personally, have not found one that doesn't require you to inform them that you know the server was not up for that amount of time and to actually request the refund. This, in itself, would save us money in the long run, and as I have been told, would possibly make more "business sense" in the accounting arena for the simple fact that 99% of the site owners would not be aware of much of the downtime if we didn't advertise it. At the same time we're trying to build FutureQuest on a different foundation all together. As noted on our homepage we honestly feel that building partnerships and treating the site owners with some respect and honesty will make a difference. Sometimes I think we falsely assume that people understand this is technology and things break, but at all times I know that by being open about it and taking our losses we are doing the right thing. I've been told, and rightfully so, that a guarantee and money back doesn't help, what the site owner wants is the site to be up!. I agree with that statement 150%. The area that I do feel many miss is that very few sites on community servers are actually up 100% of the time. The difference being that the site owners are not always aware of the downtime.

At any rate, we are in fact offering you all we have in an effort to give you the best available service on the net. Sometimes this is shown with skills, other times with respect, and other times with just trying to help out in areas we do not necessarily need to help with. We do not have the biggest most expensive system setups on the net, we try to make up for that via service, and hope that with time, enthusiasm, and plain old fashion hard work, we'll grow into those systems we dream of http://www.aota.net/ubb/wink.gif

As far as your package changing 'hours' after you signed up. That does not happen. The packages and prices page may change within minutes of someone signing up for an account but if the account is signed on with a certain package the changes do not affect that account for a long amount of time. The package prices changed just a tiny bit when we changed the specials from offering three months free to offering the price discount. For some this was seen as an increase obviously but for all the accounts there was a 5 month warning period to allow them the time to decide what they wanted to do about it whether it meant fixing themselves into a yearly contract or leaving or paying the extra amount come July. The same has been noted about the bandwidth limit. Yes it changed for new accounts, but for accounts that were on the server before then some protection was in place. Pre-payers had the protection of their pre-payment, monthlys have the protection of knowing that IF I do make the change to include monthly payers they would have at least five months before it would go into affect as I noted in the other thread. So in no way has anyone's package changed 'overnight' http://www.aota.net/ubb/wink.gif

I hope this helps explain some of the things being brought up.....

Thanks again for the support of so many of you and also thank you to those who are keeping us on our toes by not being so supportive all the time http://www.aota.net/ubb/wink.gif

Deb

[zeegraf]

Boksoft laid this on us:

I really did think you were the best around...but lately I'm starting to doubt...I know you are trying the best you can (I think so :-)...but the problems lately are letting me think twice....

System glitches are a fact of life. Do you think that FQuest is the only hosting service to have the occasional problem? It happens all the time with other outfits too, but very few (if any) hosting services are as forthright about what's going on, as the FQuest team is.


------------------
Don Z.
www.zeegraf.com (http://www.zeegraf.com)

"To poldly mow air moebius
gumby four" --Kirk on Novacaine

[Rich]

re: Hosting Services and Downtime

I host sites with various hosting services. All sites experience downtime for one reason or another. All the sites I host with advertise 99%-99.5% uptime guarantees. However FQ is the ONLY host that actually honors this commitment for the various reasons that Deb outlined above.

It has been my observation that there are quite a lot of people hoping around from host to host looking for the holly grail in hosting. My only advice if someone is planning a change from FQ or from ANY other host and you are seeking more uptime is:

(1) Determine the acceptable uptime (or downtime) limits that you are willing to accept.
(2) Determine how you will assess a host providers ability to provide this. This is the real "gotcha". Just how WILL you confirm this?
(3) You could just ask "Do you have any downtime?", but the answer will invariably be "No, almost never."
(4) The only reliable way to assess a host providers uptime capabilities is to ask them for a copy of their "downtime log." I haven't actually done this, but I would doubt that you will be very successful at getting one and I'm sure the answers as to why would be very entertaining. [Hmmm, I might just try this sometime.]
(5) With the exception of networking problems, an account on a shared host means you will experience downtime based on the actions of ALL THE OTHER HOST OWNERS. Therefore, by definition, shared hosting is very unpredictable in terms of PLANNED downtime.
(6) If you have a site that absolutely requires the most uptime available, I would recommend a dedicated server solution. Prices start at about $295+ per month.

My 2 cents and then some....

Rich
-- "Is that greener grass over there?"

[Boksoft]

OK, I heard ya all :-)
Just a little frustration here :-(

[This message has been edited by Boksoft (edited 04-02-99).]

[Deb]

(4) The only reliable way to assess a host providers uptime capabilities is to ask them for a copy of their "downtime log." I haven't actually done this, but I would doubt that you will be very successful at getting one and I'm sure the answers as to why would be very entertaining. [Hmmm, I might just try this sometime.]

ROFL!!!! If you do I want a detailed report of your findings! :P Just the thought of this one sends chills up my spine.. as I have asked for reports on various hosts back when I was doing web design and reslling... The majority told me that "System Logs Were Unavailable for security reasons".

There is a large misconception of what one can expect from a host as well as what one may not expect that they should expect! It'll take quite a bit of time before that's a widespread realization though.

Appreciate your notes on the area though... everyone of them is 200% accurate!

Deb