Bad Artists Copy.... Good Artists Steal.... [Archive]

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heath

09-22-1999, 02:16 AM

I always laughed when I looked at the description of this forum.[nbsp][nbsp]"Tables, Forms..."[nbsp][nbsp]Tables?[nbsp][nbsp]Advaced Development? Ha.

I've once again been reminded of the age-old axion "That which makes you laugh can also make you cry..."
[nbsp]
I have a table/html problem.[nbsp][nbsp]This page looks fine on I.E. 5, but on Netscape 4.6, it's not quite right:
[nbsp]
http://xthedailyspread.futurequest.net/pundits/mac/service_2.html

At the bottom,[nbsp][nbsp]there are two tables that contain user added comments for the page.[nbsp][nbsp]They are both generated 100% FROM THE SAME PHP CODE - only the text in the middle is different.
[nbsp]
On my version of Netscape 4.x, there is a little extra border area on the right hand side of the first table -- the second table renders fine.[nbsp][nbsp]Taking apart the html source for the page didn't help either - the tables are identical except for the text held within.

This isn't an anomaly - on my question/answer/forum the same thing is happening - here is an example:
http://xthedailyspread.futurequest.net/show.html?quest_id=2&pun_id=3&rrr=http://xthedailyspread-.futurequest.net/bettingqa/cryin/
[nbsp]
What's so beautiful and elegant in IE looks like hell in Netscape.

Other comments about the site's aesthics are welcome including (I already know the layers up top look horrible on Netscape):

1) My likelyhood of being sued for essentially thinking IN the BOX and ripping off someone else's design
[Actually my site has a ton of content - and managing it all was an 80-100 hr a week job.[nbsp][nbsp]Who better to "mentor" than the Information Overload Champions of the World?].[nbsp][nbsp]Am I liable for a class action suit since said company is publically owned?[nbsp][nbsp](just kidding)

2) Loading speed [first page load may be slow because there is a big external .js file at bottom of page, but should become cached after that] - also content on page should all be displayed before the .js file is done loading.[nbsp][nbsp]The idea was to make this process as seemless as possible.

3) The colors and readibility - I am colorblind and illiterate.[nbsp][nbsp]Well, actually - just colorblind so I'm kind of guessing (borrowing) the color scheme.
[nbsp]
I know some of the links are dead - and this is a real shot in the dark, but --

If anyone is interested in cleaning up/improving/optimizing my php code and database structure - I have funds budgeted for the right minded dedicated individual.
[nbsp]
Thanks for listening to me ramble --

Heath

Oh yeah = why is it that the !#!#@%$#@ backspace button on my laptop works like the "BACK" button on my browser?[nbsp][nbsp]Its driving me nuts.

Carol-H

09-22-1999, 10:06 AM

I'm using Netscape 4.61 and I see what you mean.[nbsp][nbsp]The problem occurs when the text hasn't run over to another line. The text box is then a little narrower than otherwise, and you see more of the gray spacer.[nbsp][nbsp]I'm still learning HTML, and I use "%" widths on my tables which you don't, so I'm not sure how to fix it.

As to color schemes, almost all of your text is black which makes it very easy to read.[nbsp][nbsp]But most people use a different color for links than for normal text since it helps distinguish between underlining for emphasis and the underline that comes with a link.[nbsp][nbsp]Maybe a different color for section headings, too?[nbsp][nbsp]But generally a very nice, clean layout.[nbsp][nbsp]

- Carol Hanson
[nbsp][nbsp]www.dragonbear.com (http://www.dragonbear.com)

LeafWind

09-22-1999, 01:40 PM

I don't have time to comb through your entire code, but I did glance over the affected tables.

I've done a few designs using tables to give an adjustable "fancy border" look, and here are a few things I've needed to use to get them to look right in all browsers:

- set <body . . . hspace=0 vspace=0>
I don't know the actual HTML spec on this, I've seen people put these attributes *in* their img tag, but putting them in the body tag works fine for me in both netscape and IE. (comments, anyone?)
This prevents "padding" of blank space around your spacer.gif

- use a spacer.gif in your text area (or the cell above or below it) to hold it to the specified width even if the text doesn't take up the whole space.
The <img src=spacer.gif etc etc> tag works to make sure your cells aren't any smaller than the spacer, but it doesn't help much with keeping the cell from being bigger than the spacer, unless you've done your math and specified the width of the table and *each* column so there's none left over to be distributed as the browser sees fit (giving you a wider grey column on the right side in netscape).

- for good measure, I also use <td width=(pixels)> for each cell, besides using the spacer.gif

Hope this helps.

Bekariso
------------------
www.LeafWind.com (http://www.LeafWind.com)
Growing web sites that thrive in the winds of change.

heath

09-23-1999, 12:37 AM

Thanks Carol-H --

You seem to be right about the table, which is another netscape screw-up if you ask me - since with spacer's and a fixed table size, the table SHOULD be the same size no matter what one puts in it - and especially a column that's EMPTY no matter what goes in the other column's.
[nbsp]
Blah.[nbsp][nbsp]

The link colors are different in i.e., but netscape seems to have basically rejected my style sheet, so I guess I'll have to work on getting different link colors in netscape.

Thanks again.

Heath

heath

09-23-1999, 03:00 PM

Leafwind --

Thanks for the tips.[nbsp][nbsp]I haven't had time to implement what you mentioned, but my guess is that one of the things that you pointed out is probably the problem.
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Thanks again.

frankc

09-28-1999, 10:21 AM

Heath:

Oh yeah = why is it that the !#!#@%$#@ backspace button on my laptop works like the "BACK" button on my browser?[nbsp][nbsp]Its driving me nuts.

You have company![nbsp][nbsp]I get this too, occasionally.[nbsp][nbsp]What laptop do you use?[nbsp][nbsp]Mine's an AMS Tech...
------------------
Frank
Hosanna! Lutheran Church www.hosannachurch.com (http://www.hosannachurch.com)
[nbsp]--and--
Pacesetter "Moving Message" Signs www.pace-setter.com (http://www.pace-setter.com)
[This message has been edited by frankc (edited 09-28-99)]

heath

09-28-1999, 05:04 PM

You have company![nbsp][nbsp]I get this too, occasionally.[nbsp][nbsp]What laptop do you use?[nbsp][nbsp]Mine's an AMS Tech

Its the most annoying thing in the world.
[nbsp]
I think it has something to so with the cursor set to "insert" mode or whatever - you know when you press "delete" and instead of doing a bkspc delete, it delete's whatever is in front of the cursor.
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I never had this problem with 15 years of using desktops of one sort or another.
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Dunno how I ever made it without a laptop, but there is some "gadgetry" I can do without when it comes to all the functionality they try to pack into the keyboard.
[nbsp]
Heath