SSI and META tags

[Justin]

Here's a new one that's been on my mind today. When a search engine spiders a site, do they see the HTML as a browser would? In other words, for my header, can I put META tags in there that would apply to all pages?

I have been trying to figure this out all day. Altavista has a great tutorial on robots, etc., but nothing about this. Also, if not, can you use META tags in the body? This would enable me to still use my header and footer. The header has all of the head, my CSS, Javascript, and the left navigation for all pages (love tables). The actual shtml pages have nothing but content. Although SSI makes adding a page and updating links a 2 minute job instead of 30-60, I don't want to neglect the search engines, either, out of lazyness (or is it laziness?)

Wait around long enough, I've probably got a million other unimportant yet rarely asked questions floating around inside of my little head http://www.aota.net/ubb/smile.gif

Thanks for the help (and these forums!)

Justin Nelson, CEO and President of SFE Enterprises, Inc. (a.k.a. trying to run a business in my bedroom)

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Oops - I wrote MEAT tags instead of META - I can't stop laughing! http://www.aota.net/ubb/smile.gif

Justin Nelson, SFE Inc.
www.vdj.net (http://www.vdj.net)

[This message has been edited by Justin (edited 01-10-99).]

[Deb]

hehe "sorry"

http://www.aota.net/ubb/Forum3/HTML/000056.html

pqwabbit beatcha to it with this question http://www.aota.net/ubb/smile.gif

Deb

[Justin]

Thanks. I need to start looking around first, before repeating a question. That's twice today my question has already been answered. I need to slow down - too hyper today. My backspace key is smoking, and I usually don't type fast like I am today. (I have this obsession with not making typos)

Thanks for the lightening fast response, BTW http://www.aota.net/ubb/smile.gif

You guys are the best.

Justin

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Justin Nelson, SFE Inc.
http://www.vdj.net

[Deb]

Actually I'm kind of glad you did this.....

Gives me a chance to remind everyone about the 'search' feature on the forums....

I think I am going to make that link a lil bit larger etc.... I don't mind repeats but I have noticed that MANY people do not even realize the ability to search back is here because of the location of the link....

I'm having fun watching you learn,.... and learning from your questions http://www.aota.net/ubb/smile.gif

Deb

[Justin]

A bigger link would be ideal I've used UBB forums before, I just never thought to use the search function.

I am having fun learning, too, BTW. I did learn the hard way that you can't put SSI within an SSI included file, though!!! http://www.aota.net/ubb/smile.gif

And I'm still laughing about <MEAT> tags!! Too much! (My appologies to the vegetarians out there!)

Justin, Mr. hyperactive today http://www.aota.net/ubb/smile.gif

[Deb]

I did learn the hard way that you can't put SSI within an SSI included file, though!!!

Buzzzzzzzz http://www.aota.net/ubb/wink.gif

Yes you can http://www.aota.net/ubb/smile.gif

How you ask? (humor me and say how? hehe)

Just name the included file with a shtml extension and you'll be all set.

myMetaTags.shtml can contain other included files like description.shtml, title.shtml, etc....

Deb

[Deb]

One other tidbit to note jic anyone else is observing this....

We can also use PHP for the include tags if/when needed...

<? include "footer.txt" ?>

In many ways I like this better because it's easier to remember the PHP tag then the SSI tag (as I learn I'll be rebuilding all my sites with PHP it seems)

Deb

[Justin]

Ok, cool. I am laughing again, because I actually said "how" out loud! I need to eat something and slow down on the coffee (mud, as I call it).

Ok, see, I have _header.txt and _footer.txt. The underscore is just for the heck of it.

The reason I tried was to put in a date & time, etc. I hadn't even though of including files within files - is there no end to what's possible with SSI? I love it! It's the greatest thing since - nah, we won't go that far http://www.aota.net/ubb/smile.gif. But it is great. So a whole site can be built on one liners! Cool.

This gives me ideas for my "What's New" section. Instead of having to format my words, I can just type in the text, and include that within the HTML - I don't want to get carried away with this, though. I'm still amazed that I can update one file and all links, even on my 404 page (thanks to this forum, of course) are up to date! Actually, 2 files, header and footer.

Also, now all of my pages have the same <META> tags. I know that they should be different, but I am still lazy. Nothing will change that http://www.aota.net/ubb/smile.gif But there's a few lines of keywords, so that should cover it all.

Right now, my listing in AltaVista has the first few words that appear on the page, which are my links. That doesn't tell users a whole lot.

Thanks again for all of the help!

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Justin Nelson, SFE Inc.
http://www.vdj.net

[Deb]

now all of my pages have the same <META> tags. I know that they should be different, but I am still lazy.

When you are ready to get really creative... you can use xssi inside your includes that allows for random text....

why do I want that? (you ask! *g*)

Because then you could generate random meta tag files.... this would allow you to not only have different tags on all of your pages the lazy way but also have each page show a different set every time it's loaded....

WooBoy http://www.aota.net/ubb/smile.gif
Deb

[Justin]

Wow, this just gets better and better. Now for one more: using php for includes, does the page have to be named shtml? Not that is matters - I'll probably stick with it the way it is for now, but I do want to update the whole site for the release of my new version of VDJ. I'm currently reading more about php3 at http://www.php.net/ in another browser window, to see what else can be done. The gif creation is nice, but I want to learn other stuff, too.

Right now my site is virtually graphic free. My aim is to make a neat, nicely formatted site with little graphics, for faster loading. I hate going to a site just to wait a full minute before seeing any content. But I do want to make it interesting. Maybe I should get a real modem...

Besides that, I don't like to use other people's graphics, even with permission, I like to make my own, and I don't have time to play in Paint Shop (but of course I have all the time in the world to play in the UBB http://www.aota.net/ubb/smile.gif ).

That's why I like all of these tools. I have the silly links thing, which has nothing to do with my software but hey, it's cool.

The other reason I don't use too many graphics is that I like a site with real content (FQ's site is a prime example - lots of stuff to read).

Ok, I'll shut up now. I see you just replied, so obviously I have been typing too long here http://www.aota.net/ubb/smile.gif

Justin

[Deb]

If the page has php in it... it needs to have a php extension...

If the page has ssi in it then it needs to have an shtml extension...

Trying to both I don't think will work... BUT I wonder... if you include a .shtml file within your .php file and the .shtml file contains a ssi include... would it work???

hmmmmmm

I am curious enough to find out... but not really silly enough to code my site that way....

why (you ask! *g*)

Because each one of these things is causing the server to have to paste together all of these files to generate a page before it can even think about showing it to the visitors... so it would kind of be a waste of resources if not needed and add a few millseconds to the download time.

Are we getting creative yet?

Deb

[Deb]

Ok I just tested and this is what I found....

Three files...

INtest.php contains...
<? include "red.shtml" ?>

red.shtml contains...
<h2><font color="red">This is red.shtml</font></h3>
<!--#include file="blue.shtml" -->

blue.shtml contains...
<h2><font color="blue">This is blue.shtml</font></h3>

Now if you view http://www.midnightmerchants.com/INtest.php you will see that it DID infact include the .shtml file... but it did NOT allow the second level .shtml file to be included.

If you view http://www.midnightmerchants.com/red.shtml you can verify that the second include does work and is there.. it's just not allowed on the php page...

So now I know http://www.aota.net/ubb/smile.gif

Deb

[Justin]

That would be getting carried away. I did wonder about the resources used to create anything dynamically. I read that that's why you need the special extentions, so that the server doesn't need to search every page for the SSI or php commands. I forgot about the php extention, too.

I must say that most of the things you can do with php can be done other ways, other than the gif thing and the database stuff. I don't really have any interest in running a database yet (to hold my whole 8 pages of content?!), but it's nice to know it's there and readily available. I would need an upgrade for that anyway, I think.

For now, I need to create some more content to utilize these cool tools. There's not much to say about my software that I haven't already said on the site. However, if my traffic keeps up as it has been, I might get bored and throw up a message board type thing (a free one, of course).

UBB would be nice, but I don't have that kind of fundage yet. I was thinking of trying to write one myself, which is why I asked about a perl interpretor for windows in another thread.

Anyway, thanks for all of the quick replies - yet another reason I know I have found the best web host in the USA http://www.aota.net/ubb/smile.gif

Justin

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Justin Nelson, SFE Inc.
http://www.vdj.net

[Del]

Justin,
When you go looking for a message forum to use, keep in mind that there is a freeware UBB available as well. It's not as nifty as the 'big' one, but it is fairly nice.

Missing features are cookies, email, search, sig's, post editing, and a few others, but all are listed at http://www.ultimatebb.com/home/freebie.html . Installation is pretty much the same as the full UBB, so the q&a elsewhere in this forum will still apply.



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Del
www.downinit.com (http://www.downinit.com)

I use ta couldnt even spell student, n now I are one!

[Benson]

When you are ready to get really creative... you can use xssi inside your
includes that allows for random text....

why do I want that? (you ask! *g*)

Because then you could generate random meta tag files...

Now this IS interesting! I'm gonna see if I can figger it out by myself- but knowing me, you better hold that thought!

[Justin]

Hahaha - I like the "Keyword Search" thing. Did I cause that?!?

Cool. Now you can't miss it http://www.aota.net/ubb/smile.gif http://www.aota.net/ubb/smile.gif http://www.aota.net/ubb/smile.gif

Justin http://www.aota.net/ubb/smile.gif

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Justin Nelson, SFE Inc.
http://www.vdj.net