Asking questions the smart way

[Adam]

I thought you would find this an interesting article, given the techinical nature of this forum and some of the posts and responses I've seen over time :kewl:

http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

Edit: DO NOT send those guys a mail asking them for help :wink:

OK, so this place is more domain-specific and service oriented, but I think a lot of this still applies!

[Wassercrats]

We have learned the hard way that without such a notice, we will repeatedly be pestered by idiots...The author needs a tutorial on how to provide help the polite way.

[Wassercrats]

It's even worse than I thought.What we are, unapologetically, is hostile to people who seem to be unwilling to think or to do their own homework before asking questions...We call people like this “losers” (and for historical reasons we sometimes spell it "lusers").
...
Before You Ask
Before asking a technical question by e-mail, or in a newsgroup, or on a website chat board, do the following:

Try to find an answer by searching the archives of the forum you plan to post to.

Try to find an answer by searching the Web.

Try to find an answer by reading the manual.

Try to find an answer by reading a FAQ.

Try to find an answer by inspection or experimentation.

Try to find an answer by asking a skilled friend.

If you're a programmer, try to find an answer by reading the source code.
That's crazy. Someone might have a quick answer. If the interface doesn't make something apparent, and you tried the manual, just ask someone. And if the product's website links to that How To Ask Questions page, choose a different product.

Worst of all, the guy is a hacker of the dangerous kind and was involved in a project to create tools used by such hackers and he says he will become involved again. I'd stay far away from anything he's involved in.

[Andilinks]

Eric S. Raymond is a genius and a madman. I admire his energy and his passion for doing what's right, though I don't always agree.

I am also a libertarian, but unlike Eric not a partisan.

In spite of his occasional madness I wish there were more like him. But not too many. :)

[Erica C.]

That's crazy. Someone might have a quick answer. If the interface doesn't make something apparent, and you tried the manual, just ask someone. And if the product's website links to that How To Ask Questions page, choose a different product.
I didn't get the sense they were talking about product websites as much as newsgroups and mailing lists where people are giving of their own time to answer questions. I rather doubt that a product website would link to them. Nor do I think that Adam was suggesting that FQ link to them! :wink:

Personally, I found their advice interesting and useful. Basically, they seemed to be explaining to bewildered newbies and non-technical types (me) how to approach the technical types with questions that are most likely to elicit answers. I took it is a sociological introduction to a particular group with guidelines on how to politely and successfully participate in that group.

And if I ever get up the courage to ask questions on the two scary mailing lists I'm on, I may well reread that article first to increase my chances of success. :smile:

BTW, let me take this opportunity to thank the very nice people here who've taken the time to answer my questions, no matter how they were phrased.

Erica (read the piece before, actually, but it was fun to look at again)

[Andilinks]

Erica is right. A comment I deleted from my earlier post but seems apt now: "how very dot org..."

This is a culture that dates back to the 1950's at Harvard when "hackers" were an unknown techie elite, though I don't think Eric himself dates back that far.

I recommend Steven Levy's Hackers: Heroes of the Computer Revolution (http://www.amazon.com/Hackers-Computer-Revolution-Steven-Levy/dp/0141000511), for a better understanding of this culture which is now in collision with the wider mass-market culture since computers have become mainstream.

[Andilinks]

Oooops, that would be MIT not Harvard. Sorry Bay Staters, Howard Aiken et al.

[Tom]

The topic reminds me of the Commemorative Air Force (http://www.commemorativeairforce.org), which I'm a former board member of. We own the largest collection of flying WWII aircraft in the world, and every pilot and every crew member (all volunteers) are reminded at every meeting, at every review, every time there's a group gathering to be courteous to the public.

As they go airport to airport, air show to air show, they are asked the same questions about the airplanes over and over and they are expected to answer each and every question like it's the first time they ever heard that question asked.

Decades ago, a few crews were pretty snippy to public questions and it can't stand for that. The organization's mission is to spread the love and the joy of the airplanes and to reverently teach the history that isn't in any books and to encourage people to join it and be a part of it.

Airplanes or computer aficionados, nobody's ever going to become a contributing part of any group if the answer to their first stumbling question is, "RTFM, stupid noob!"

[Wassercrats]

Hackers: Heroes of the Computer RevolutionYeah, and Hitler was a good artist. I just hope that hackers like Eric S. Raymond who develop hacking products and publish information that helps terrorists and other criminals are brought to justice before they aid someone similar to Hitler. Unfortunately, there's not enough funding for law enforcement and a lack of caring in telecom and related industries.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=2574462Disaffected people living in the United States may develop radical ideologies and potentially violent skills over the Internet and that could present the next major U.S. security threatHackers like Eric S. Raymond not only develop and promote products that allow criminals to crack computers, invade our privacy, and hide, but they teach people how to commit unrelated crimes and they promote the publication of dangerous material of all kinds. Ever hear about what they teach at hacker conventions? These people don't concentrate on computers or freedom issues. Their specialty is evil of all sorts and they try to disguise it as something good or even patriotic. I'd have a spammer's baby before I'd do anything to help Eric S. Raymond and people like him.

There are some products created and promoted by these people that I believe are used for crime by 90+ percent of those who possess them, and the other 10% probably intended to commit crime with the product. I don't think there's constitutional protection for such things. They create a clear and present danger and their developers should be punished accordingly.

[Andilinks]

Eric's work may be used for evil but I don't think he is evil himself and perhaps a discussion about Godwin's Law (http://www.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/legends/godwin/) is in order...

While I think terrorists should be dispatched (killed) quickly I do still look over my shoulder at other less obvious evils. Information wants to be free, and yes sometimes that may kill innocent people, it is a dangerous world.

Have you read much about (or by) Eric S. Raymond (http://catb.org/esr/who-is-ESR.html)? While opinionated and at times an anarchist I think he would defend our civilization against those who threaten it. If you think otherwise please elaborate.

Why We Fight — An Anti-Idiotarian Manifesto (2.0) (http://catb.org/~esr/aim/)

[Wassercrats]

No time to read more of Eric's work. I have to wash my hair or something.

[Andilinks]

I have to wash my hair or something.You must have a hot date with a fecund spammer...

[Bruce]

I just hope that hackers like Eric S. Raymond who develop hacking products and publish information that helps terrorists and other criminals are brought to justice before they aid someone similar to Hitler.

Hackers like Eric S. Raymond not only develop and promote products that allow criminals to crack computers, invade our privacy, and hide, but they teach people how to commit unrelated crimes and they promote the publication of dangerous material of all kinds. Ever hear about what they teach at hacker conventions? These people don't concentrate on computers or freedom issues. Their specialty is evil of all sorts and they try to disguise it as something good or even patriotic. I'd have a spammer's baby before I'd do anything to help Eric S. Raymond and people like him.Eric S. Raymond (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_S._Raymond) may be a kook and misguided in some of his writings, but he uses the term "hacker" in much the same way as I usually would -- "a software designer and programmer who builds elegant, beautiful programs and systems (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hacker). The software he writes is similar in nature to the software I write (although some of it is of dubious quality at best) -- free software for Linux and other UNIX-style operating systems. He is most known for fetchmail (http://www.fetchmail.info/), a program to pull mail in from POP3 or IMAP mailboxes, and gpsd (http://gpsd.berlios.de/), a GPS data handler, as well as his additions to the Jargon file (http://www.catb.org/~esr/jargon/) and several essays (http://catb.org/esr/writings/), including The Cathedral and the Bazaar (http://catb.org/esr/writings/cathedral-bazaar/), a work that is famous among open-source software developers.

In many ways, I count myself as a member of "people like him", and find myself rather confused where the terrorist notion came from. :umm:

[Wassercrats]

In many ways, I count myself as a member of "people like him", and find myself rather confused where the terrorist notion came from. :umm:It came from what he says about himself, for example at http:// www. catb. org/ ~esr/ personal.html.

He also says:I have been a member of the [omitted by Wassercrats] list and will rejoin when I free up some time. I am very interested in technologies that promote individual freedom by making it difficult for governments and corporations to control or monitor network activity.The FAQ for the list he mentions says it consists of the subgroups "Hackers, Crackers, and Phreaks."

Before Sept. 11th I read about people like him and thought there should be very strong measures taken to stop them before it's too late. Since Sept. 11th, I've heard about encryption and various online information helping terrorists, and these Libertarian nuts not only fight for the right but they promote and create the tools and publish the information that's used for terrorist acts and other serious crimes, without taking precautions to prevent it from getting into the hands of the wrong people, and at the same time they want to prevent the government from being able to investigate. They use their tools to invade privacy, which is the least evil way they use them, yet they don't want law enforcement to be able to discover what they're up to because they claim the government is invading people's privacy.

[Andilinks]

In my reading of Raymond he is not a threat. If he is indeed compromising our safety it is the job of our intelligence agencies to determine that, I won't judge him harshly as I do think he's on our side, based on the essay you didn't have time to read.

Future engagements with terrorists will certainly become much more barbaric and those who allowed these things to happen will have hell to pay... Club Gitmo will look like a picnic in the park, thousands, perhaps millions will die.

I don't think Raymond needs to worry, but really that's not my affair.