paper trail of opting in?

[Evoir]

I have a client who will be adding email addresses manually to their mailing list, and I've advised they write up an agreement and have each person sign it acknowleging that they want to be added to the mailing list. Is there any text already written that covers this kind of opting in that they could use and modify?

[Andilinks]

Is there any text already written that covers this kind of opting in that they could use and modify?Most online opt-in agreements consist of a simple check-box with words to the effect of "I agree to allow you to send email to this address," and then an explanation about the procedure to opt-out.

Since it's unlikely to go to court in any case and the most extreme case would probably be reproducing the list for some spam warrior I don't think you need any more than that. A hard copy would add to credibility.

Unless the email is highly controversial or illegal the opt-in agreements will just sit in a cardboard banker's box somewhere for fifty years and then be discarded.

[sheila]

I have a client who will be adding email addresses manually to their mailing list, and I've advised they write up an agreement and have each person sign it acknowleging that they want to be added to the mailing list. Is there any text already written that covers this kind of opting in that they could use and modify?
Evie, assuming this is a site hosted at FutureQuest, the Confirmed Opt-In requirement is still in place and they would need to send out confirmation emails and have the clients respond to such (per the TOS).

[Evoir]

Sheila,

hmmm. I thought that electronic opt-in was one way to do it, and having a signed document on file was another way to do it. What I remember was that if there was a problem, it wa our responsibility to provide proof that the person actually opted in. If I am wrong, I will have the client re-adjust their proceedures. :confuz:

[sheila]

Evie, I'm afraid the TOS is rather specific on this point, and does not offer an option.
http://www.FutureQuest.net/Services/TOS/#MailingLists
Mailing Lists: All mailing lists must use only a confirmed opt-in process for adding subscribers. All subscription based lists must have unsubscribe procedures that are simple to locate and complete. Furthermore, mailing lists exceeding 500 subscribers sent using the FutureQuest Services must be sent using the mailing list tools that have been pre-installed by FutureQuest for this purpose. If your mailing list exceeds 1,500 addresses, you must contact FutureQuest requesting and receiving permission to send the mailing through the FutureQuest Servers prior to sending any messages.
Confirmed Opt-In Requirement Explained (http://www.aota.net/Mailing_Lists/Confirmed-Opt-In.php4)

[Andilinks]

If it's in the FQ TOS you'll be forced to do it the easy way and send an initial opt-in email for confirmation. But since it is FQ that will have to deal with the consequenses of an accusation of spamming I can see where they would prefer it be electronic. I can't understand why anyone would prefer filing paper, the electronic record can always be printed out.

[Evoir]

crap. ok. crap.

[sheila]

If they are collecting the email addresses on paper, then they are going to have to input them into electronic form at some point anyhow.

I would suggest using the Batch subscriber script offered in the downloads section. Once they input the email addresses into whatever electronic storage they are using (spreadsheet, text editor...?) they can just copy and paste them into the form used on the batch subscribe processor.

[Evoir]

It's just the convincing them that they have to do this... I don't know why it is such a hurdle. But, Monday. :)

[Evoir]

Can you remind me why you have the ability to add email addresses manually via the CNC and not the script you suggested I use? It seems like that script should be the standard in the CNC and not the open ended Add/Remove? I mean, I understand the Remove option.... :)

[sheila]

Can you remind me why you have the ability to add email addresses manually via the CNC
Certainly...
The ability to simply add email addresses allows site administrators to transfer lists from other hosts that were operate on the other host via the Confirmed Opt-In subscpription method. If all of the subscribers have previously confirmed their subscription, they do not need to re-confirm when the list changes hosts.

...and not the script you suggested I use? It seems like that script should be the standard in the CNC...

I agree that script should be a standard part of the CNC. It is on the wishlist to have it added. The current Add capability in the CNC originates from the original implementation of mailing list management in the CNC, and at that time we simply didn't have the problems with spam and spam complaints that necessitated a Confirmed Opt-In subscription process. I'm not sure what the timeline is on having this added to the CNC...it may be quite far down the task list for our developer.

[Evoir]

Adding this script to the mailing list portion of the CNC seems like an important one for customer service... I find this to be a big sore thumb in the CNC and managing clients and teaching them to do the right thing. I mean, I'm kinda an old timer around here and I thought that was there for folks who have opted in via other methods. You can imagine explaining this to a director of a non profit "Um, yes, I know you CAN add them via the CNC, but you are NOT supposed to"....

[sheila]

I've bumped up the ticket in our issue tracker...will see if it can be nudged along at all...

[Erica C.]

You can imagine explaining this to a director of a non profit "Um, yes, I know you CAN add them via the CNC, but you are NOT supposed to"....
Perhaps your client could think about it this way. The CNC is for quick things like changing someone's email address when they're already on the list and they send you their new email address. The script is for adding new people to the list.

As to explaining to your client why it has to be done this way: it's so you don't get accused of sending spam. Said in a very serious voice. (I can't find a serious voice smiley.)

I hope that this didn't sound like I'm minimizing the problem. I'm newer at this than you but I can certainly relate. I already have spent a lot of time explaining why we have to be careful about anything that could be seen as spam. It's not always obvious to clients.

Erica

[Andilinks]

I already have spent a lot of time explaining why we have to be careful about anything that could be seen as spam. It's not always obvious to clients.You might begin assembling a collection of articles about spam with scary headlines--since they'll only read the headlines anyway. In any case if it's an argument you must make often it will pay to rehearse it. Perhaps collect some forum threads or posts about it that make your point, those should be easy to find. You could print them out and present them in a small booklet. Just the fact that you've prepared to make the case about spam may be enough to convince them.

edited spelling error

[Erica C.]

Those are good suggestions, Andi. Thanks.

What I have learned is that things may seem reasonable to a client until you turn it around. Would you like someone to add your name to mailing list just because you made a purchase at someone's store? What if you are buying a one-time present for someone and you have no interest in the products otherwise?

Also, the threat of "Future Quest will take the site away if we get accused of sending spam" seems quite successful. :wink:

[Andilinks]

This is becoming an increasing problem since it seems that everyone who gets your email sees it as a marketing opportunity. You may quote me:Much of the spam that I get is from vendors whose products I may like but who have annoyed me enough with their spam that I no longer look kindly upon them.
After receiving spam phone calls I'm reluctant to give the phone number out. I give the number to a mechanic who is doing minor servicing and then I get annoyed every three months with his "helpful" calls. A cashier at a retail store recently asked for my phone number and I gave her 555-555-5555...

[Evoir]

Thanks Sheila!

I actually have NO problem with the TOS, nor the proceedure. I just have trouble with the Add form being right there in front of them. Also, Erica, I would think you shouldn't change someone's email like that, because then you do not have an double opt-in electronic trail.

This seems very similar to the issue a while back where as a reseller, if I had given access to the CNC to my client, there was a link that said "Contact Support" and I sounded like a freak telling them not to use that link. It's like, "Don't touch that button right in front of you!" But, FQ came up with a solution of offering resllers a no branded CNC without that link. And it has really helped.

I hope this does get moved up the que. It would be a little thing, but a huge improvement. I would make the Add form much more harder to find, and make the opt-in in and Remove form front and center. I bet it would save a lot of FQ support time dealing with this issue, too. A little extra time up front can sometimes save a lot of time and headache down the road.

If someone is bringing a confirmed opt-in list with them from another host, maybe they should have to add the list manually by ftp-ing the list of names... I would imagine that FQ has the most strict rules about mailing lists... I've been with a number of other hosts over the years, and FQ is the strictest about this issue. I don't mind one bit, in fact, I like that they actually back up their terms of service with healthy explanantions, but the interface should match the rules to be most effective.

ok, off of my soapbox.

[partherton]

__________________
uh, nevermind.


Using this as your signature is confusing (at least to me). At first, I didn't realize it was your signature and thought that you had edited the post saying "nevermind", dismissing the question you just asked. If I had known the answer (which i didn't) I would have moved on w/o answering, thinking you'd already figured it out. JMHO.