[FQuest Announce] Forum Upgrade to vB3.5 Complete

[Joseph]

The FutureQuest Community Forum upgrade to vB 3.5 Gold has been completed! :yeah:

vB3.5 has a LOT of new features & functions. However, as most of these new features revolve around the backend of the forums, it shouldn't be too overwhelming for end users. vBulletin 3.5 also runs much faster & should generally make your forum browsing experience a much better one. :smile:

Hopefully the upgrade will be seen as positive thing by the community overall, though we know that with change there may be oddities. If you have any comments, suggestions, or problems concerning this upgrade, we would appreciate you bringing them to our attention by responding to this thread.

Changes & Additions of Note

The entire "Read/Unread" system has been rewritten. This information is now stored in the MySQL database, rather than in cookies on your computer. You may notice that topics you have already read are now marked as unread. This can be solved by simply scrolling down to the footer of the forums main page and clicking the "Mark All Forums Read" link. Another option is to go to individual forums and select "Mark Forum as Read" from the "Forum Options" drop-down.

A simple set of Guidelines & Regulations have been posted for reference. All new members will be required to accept these guidelines upon registration. Obviously, continued posting equates to an acceptance of the Guidelines and Regulations and therefore all existing members should review them as well. They can be found by clicking the "Guidelines" link either in the forum navbar or footer.

AJAX-powered features, such as Edit & Quick Reply, have been added. You will notice that these functions have been updated to be much faster and are more inline than ever before. Note, however, that Javascript must be enabled to experience these new features. Members without Javascript enabled will still see the old Edit & Quick Reply functions as they always have been.

If you use the "Old Blue" style (no longer recommended) you have likely noticed that you are not seeing "Old Blue" right now. The "Quick Style Select" drop-down has been removed from the footer, however, you may still set your preference to the "Old blue" skin via your UserCP (found by clicking the "Options" link in the forum navbar). Once set, your forum view should remain "Old Blue" until you decide to change it to the forum default. Note, "Old Blue" will eventually cease to exist in favor of having a single default forum template which will make it easier for us to keep it up to date and support overall. Nevertheless, for those who still prefer "Old Blue" it is still available at this time.

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Again, If you have any comments, suggestions, or problems concerning this upgrade, we would appreciate you bringing them to our attention by responding to this thread.

Enjoy!

[Wassercrats]

The FutureQuest Community Forum upgrade to vB 3.5 Gold has been completed! :yeah:I see one of the link problems here (http://www.aota.net/forums/showthread.php?postid=138544#post138544) was fixed, but not the problem when the link text contains the URL.

Now I'm going to see whether I can quote quoted text.

...I also see that you can see the entire thread in the correct order when replying...I mean when editing...That's good.

[Wassercrats]

I see one of the link problems here (http://www.aota.net/forums/showthread.php?postid=138544#post138544) were fixed, but not the problem with with the link text contains the URL.

Now I'm going to see whether I can quote quoted text.Nope.

Wait...maybe I need to try it in this version... This is a test http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c109:H.R.3673:. Another (http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c109:H.R.3673:) test.

Hey, you can't preview edited posts! And hey, where are my smilies! :(

Well, at least both link problems were fixed. It's just that the problems from the old version of vBulletin aren't all self corrected.

edit... There's no box to describe what was edited.

[Wassercrats]

And I had to refresh this page to see my posts after I went back to the main menu.

[Joseph]

Preview is not available in "Quick Edit" mode (when you click the "Edit" button once) - however you can get a preview by simply clicking "Go Advanced" after making your changes.

Also, if you click the "Edit" button twice (not double-click, just click it and then click it again after the edit box opens) - it will take you to the advanced/normal edit page.

The box to leave an edit reason is also on the Advanced Edit page only - Quick Edit is for just that, quickly making small edits. :smile:

And hey, where are my smilies!

Not sure what you mean - all of the smilies are still here... :dunno:

[Wassercrats]

Not sure what you mean - all of the smilies are still here... :dunno:I mean when I edit my post I don't see them, but see them when I reply.

This cache thing is really annoying. I have to refresh for the /search.php?do=getdaily page and for each thread before I see the updated page. This happened once before, but it corrected itself somehow, or else Futurequest corrected it.

[Snarpy]

Note, "Old Blue" will eventually cease to exist in favor of having a single default forum template which will make it easier for us to keep it up to date and support overall. :wah:

In that case, maybe you could make the default template sort of like Old Blue, except in purple? A nice non-greyed purple, if possible? I really really dislike reading black on light purple. It is uncomfortable and hard on the eyes. And the dark grey-purple is absolutely icky.

If I had to use the current default template all the time, I might get cranky.:rollpin:

Snarpy

[Snarpy]

From the new rules (http://www.aota.net/forums/register.php?do=showrules)When quoting another individual within the forums you should always try to include their forum name and a link to their original comment if possible.Do you expect us to link to posts within the same thread? I can understand when we pull a post from one thread into another, but in the middle of a conversation it seems superfluous.

Snarpy

[Andilinks]

When it comes to Old Blue I want to add my voice to Snarpy's, while I do like the color purple generally I much prefer Old Blue on these forums. It's the first thing I changed.

Andi

[Wassercrats]

I experimented with the color in MS Paint. I increased the Lum by 30 for the dark and light purple and it looked good. Maybe that contrast difference would be enough. Personally, I don't care.

[Wassercrats]

I'll have to complain to the vBulletin developers some day that there are no instructions on using the search tool. Maybe I'm the only one who cares. Do quotes do anything? Same problem with Windows history search. I don't get it. But don't talk about Windows here because it's not allowed.

[Jeff]

I'll have to complain to the vBulletin developers some day that there are no instructions on using the search tool. Maybe I'm the only one who cares. Do quotes do anything? Same problem with Windows history search. I don't get it. But don't talk about Windows here because it's not allowed.
When I read the buzz-words "mysql full text search" a year ago I had hoped it would provide a more "google like" search power. Are people finding that the mysql full text search adds any accuracy to searches, or is it only a server performance advantage?

[Rich]

re: Old Blue

I'd just like to add my vote that the forum should strive to at least provide black text on a white background for the main text sections. Do whatever you want to the style of the rest of the page.

[Deb]

From the new rules (http://www.aota.net/forums/register.php?do=showrules)Do you expect us to link to posts within the same thread? I can understand when we pull a post from one thread into another, but in the middle of a conversation it seems superfluous.

Snarpy The link isn't required...just extremely helpful in some cases. Primarily when the post is in another thread, but also when the post is in the same thread but the thread is several pages long :smile:

RE: Old Blue

No need to vote... we can see how many are using which template now. At the time of the upgrade there was a small handful of folks using it and it remained just for them :wink: We will likely update the headers and footers before anything... it's extremely helpful to have those matching. A major update in colors (for both sides in an effort to keep as many happy as possible) wont happen overnight...I agree dark text on light backgrounds is best fwiw.... I just also agree that we'll need to mend the two together so that we end up with a single template to support :wink:

Deb
- Nothing endures but change. - Heraclitus

[Andilinks]

...end up with a single template to support. To which I can only say, lighten up! I hope I'm not offending the one who picked the default colors, but I find them several shades too dismal. Keep the same hue and saturation, just crank up the lightness a few notches... :)

This new forum is very forgetful, I must log on with my pw everytime even though "remember me" is checked. This would seem to be a local problem except that it only occurs with this new forum, all the rest (and the old version when it existed) are fine--nothing changed on this end.

Andi

[Jeff]

I actually like the text on gray (or purple-gray) and after a long day, find it easier on my eyes than a high contrast page.

This new forum is very forgetful,
Try manually clearing any cookies you have from aota.net, www.aota.net, etc. manually and then I bet you will be able to stay logged in. I bet it's a "corrupt" cookie issue.

[Jeff]

I just also agree that we'll need to mend the two together so that we end up with a single template to support :wink:
It seems the strongest opinions are on color not layout, and then it would seem trivial to offer multiple color schemes by basing substyles on the main style and simply changing the CSS and buttons (which might change every two years.) Or have I missed the boat on this?

[Andilinks]

I bet it's a "corrupt" cookie issue.Yep, thanks, Jeff.

My next problem is the "Posts In" menu item at the top of this page, it gives me an error message.

[Joseph]

My next problem is the "Posts In" menu item at the top of this page, it gives me an error message.

What error? It's working fine for me at this time. :dunno:

[Jeff]

You also forced a refresh of your browser to clear out any old cached javascript, etc. files?

[Monty]

thanks for keeping old blue going!

[Andilinks]

Refreshed browser several times, "Posts In" returns this error for me using IE6 and iRider.
Configuration: includes/config.php exists, but is not in the 3.5 format. Please convert your config file via the new config.php.new.It works fine in Firefox and Opera.

Andi

[Joseph]

Refreshed browser several times, "Posts In" returns this error for me using IE6 and iRider.
It works fine in Firefox and Opera.

Andi

I've tested it with IE6 on Win2k - and it works fine. I'm not sure what "iRider" is though, that may be causing some problem? :dunno:

Please ensure that you've fully HARD refreshed your browser and/or cleared your cache. :smile:

[Andilinks]

Clearing the cache fixed the problem.

iRider is a browser using the IE engine which includes powerful features especially useful for those of us who open and view many sites at the same time. I have heard that FF now has an extension called "Linky" that does some of these things but I am extremely happy with iRider, worth every penny at $39. http://www.irider.com/

Andi

[Jeff]

Out of curiosity, when you were refreshing before were you doing the CTRL + F5 Refresh (IE) or Shift+Reload (firefox) or were you hitting the refresh and only the refresh button alone?

[Andilinks]

Initially just refresh, then cleared the cache. I know what CTRL + F5 + refresh is however I don't use it often enough to recall it when I need it. Since I spend a LOT of time at this computer I would guess that many people are like me and when you call for a HARD refresh without specifying the keys you are running a high risk of having to just go back and repeat. Fortunately there was a third option which saved me the embarrassment of having to admit that I had forgotten...

Andi

[Monty]

are there any plans to enable user reputations with the new setup, Joseph?

[Joseph]

are there any plans to enable user reputations with the new setup, Joseph?

It was discussed as a possible addition to the forums - however some logistic issues kept it from being pushed through with the upgrade.

However, it is something that may appear in the future. :smile:

[Monty]

That feature has easily been the most interesting one we have explored in the patched versions already released. My general feel for the whole feature has it making folks more cautious with their postings. It also has reduced traffic jams. It also seems to have increased accountability. It's an interesting feature, for sure. Thanks for considering adding it. Time is money, afterall.

[Wassercrats]

I've been on a couple of forums where saying thank you was downvoted because it was seen as a way for the poster to get more upvotes, and the official rule on some actually say not to say thank you because it adds no useful information. User repuations will decrease the number of posts as Monty said, and improve the over-all quality, but it could also decrease the amount of useful information and opinions. I've also seen lots of redundant posts with little extra useful information, made by people who want to get upvoted, and it apparently works because that's the most noticeable and common problem when user reputations are enabled.

I know at least one member who won't change one bit, except maybe to criticize the votes he received. If I ever have occasion to post in Contract or be Contracted and I have a bad reputation, I probably won't bother posting. I'd start frequenting a different forum and searching for another web host.

[Stecyk]

Rather than user reputations, I'd rather just rate posts and have an ignore feature.

What's interesting is that often the so-called troublemaker is often the one that adds the most value. But the other "team members" don't take to the disliked or so-called troublemaker.

If there is an individual or two that you want to ignore, then an ignore feature would work well.

Just my thoughts, for what they are worth.

[Deb]

I'd start frequenting a different forum and searching for another web host. This is one of, if not the, main reason we did not activate the user reputation feature. I felt it would be AWESOME to give praise where praise was due but have also seen this feature abused beyond belief in other forums. People complaining up a storm about other people using the system incorrectly. We had to ask ourselves, "Is FutureQuest's reputation worth what one client rates another client in a forum thread?" That answer is what held the feature off for this round :hrmm:

I did consider making it so that only admins could give reputation feedback in hopes of encouraging helpful posts etc... and that remains on the table... but the pros and cons of it have not been fully weighed yet. Rather than user reputations, I'd rather just rate posts and have an ignore feature. Note, you can ignore other members already so that's a feature available to you now. Thread ratings was something we had turned on a long time ago and it seem to go unused for the most part so we turned it off to save on space. It's something worth pondering again if the community shows a desire for it.

Deb
- Reputations are created every day and every minute regardless of clickability...

[Andilinks]

I'm neutral on the issue or reputation ratings. I do frequent two forums where they are used, it does not inhibit me (but then what would?). I have gotten good rep points and that is an ego boost when it happens. I have awarded good rep points, though there I am a bit inhibited because you cannot award rep points anonymously. I would be against anonymous negative points though.

Some members have accused others of sucking-up just for points, some members do seem to try to cultivate points, a big popularity contest ego trip.

Having a record of who awarded which points and their comments is an interesting feature...

I like the ability to add comments to a post without creating a new post, that adds continuity and avoids the need to search through all the posts linearly to find comments on one post.

If positive rep points were added here I would use them, but sparingly. Sometimes I do want to agree or admire without having to construct an entire post. I'm a bit leery of negative rep points and would absolutely NOT use them retaliatorily, and would be very cautious about using them at all except on blatantly spam posts.

Andi

[Stecyk]

Deb,

Note, you can ignore other members already so that's a feature available to you now.

Though, it doesn't seem to work very well. When I tried it for one annoying poster, I got this message:

Sorry, you can not add yourself to your own ignore list. :rasberry:

Oh well.

[tjlid]

Sorry, you can not add yourself to your own ignore list. LaughLaughLaughLaughLaugh.mp3

[Wassercrats]

Last call for anyone else who needs to constantly refresh pages with this new version of vBulletin. I'm having the same problem that I had here (http://www.aota.net/forums/showthread.php?t=19159), but I think I'm all alone again and will have to wait for the problem to magically disappear again.

[Wassercrats]

I think the problem went away.

I'm not too happy with the badly-antialiased series of smilies. I assume they're new.
:cool: :rolleye: :confused: :(

[Deb]

I think the problem went away.

I'm not too happy with the badly-antialiased series of smilies. I assume they're new.
:cool: :rolleye: :confused: :( Glad it went away :smile:

The smiles are OLD OLD OLD as in original smilies with the forums.... there are no new smilies today but the old ones were left there for those who preferred them years ago and now as opposed to the new smilies that became available a long time ago (http://aota.net/forums/showthread.php?t=9172) and that have been spawning anew ever since. In short, if it's not in the shape of the logo... it's not a new smilie :rasberry:

Deb
- Digg'n Deep

[Randall]

The smiles are OLD OLD OLD as in original smilies with the forums.... there are no new smilies today but the old ones were left there for those who preferred them years ago The smiley codes are old but the designs have changed. They probably look great on Old Blue because they're antialiased for a white background -- I've argued in the past for a white background in the purple template, so consider this a reminder :wink: -- but they look awful against the purple.

I'd be in favor of retrofitting all of the old smilies with the YT versions. For a long time I was using certain round ones just because there were no corresponding YT/QT versions. The list has filled out a lot since then. Retaining the old codes with updated designs is also a better solution than "retiring" the codes, which has left us with orphans like :evil: in old threads.

(Oh, and the smilies window has shrunk again, just like in the vb 3.0 upgrade.)

But I do like the general idea behind the :eek: redesign. We need a good bug-eyed smiley.

Randall

[Randall]

From the guidelines: All threads that do not receive any new posts for a period of 60 days or longer will be locked and considered expired. Some threads, depending on their content and usefulness over a shorter period of time, may be expired/locked sooner. That's a big change from the one-year expiration period. I'll wait to see how it works in practice, but 60 days might be too short -- sometimes after posting a problem here, the original poster will check in just to say "hey, everything is working smoothly now, thanks for the help" or that they found a better solution "and here's what I'm using now."

Considering that some of us are known to procrastinate, :wink: two months may not be enough. And it's possible that some people won't post an update if it means starting a new thread and then linking to the old one -- either because it takes more work, or because it makes the update itself sound overly self-important. (One thread isn't enough -- I must have two of them! Bwahahahaha!) Much of this could be addressed by building in an "Update" or "Follow-up" button: it would help automate the process and encourage follow-ups, without defeating the purpose of the time limit.

Hopefully this won't turn into a ten-page argument that has to be split into its own thread -- and my suggestion for an Update button is on topic. Sort of. :rasberry:

Randall

[Deb]

I'll wait to see how it works in practice, but 60 days might be too short Over time if it needs adjusting we can do just that... reviewing what the current usage is makes it appear that 60 days is likely enough. It's adjustable though if required. Time will tell .... Much of this could be addressed by building in an "Update" or "Follow-up" button: it would help automate the process and encourage follow-ups, without defeating the purpose of the time limit. I like that idea :) May be something worthy of requesting from vB themselves as it'd be a nice feature.

<edit> Then again... I'd still want a time limit on the original poster's ability to reopen a thread....

Deb
- Jumped out of an airplane two more times... learning not to sweat the small stuff :P

[Andilinks]

I would say that 60 days is definitely not long enough except that it is always possible to begin a new thread quoting significant portions of the old thread with a link to it.

That would be even better because it would provide a synopsis of the important portions of the old thread rather than requiring an entire reading by a new visitor. Perhaps locked threads might include this instruction next to the locked reply button.

And it would provide more opportunities for Randall to use the bug-eyed smilie. A smilie that doesn't smile is what, an emoticon?

Hmmm... I like the way this new version handles post editing with a box in the actual post.
Andi

[Randall]

I like that idea :) May be something worthy of requesting from vB themselves as it'd be a nice feature.

<edit> Then again... I'd still want a time limit on the original poster's ability to reopen a thread.... And I'd also propose that the Update button be discretional -- ie, automatic for auto-expired threads but not for threads locked by the moderators. And it doesn't necessarily have to be limited to the original poster, since follow-on questions from other people are often just as useful as the original.

In actual operation, the Update button could encourage "good updating" habits, like setting the subject line to "UPDATE: <original subject>", inserting the link and noting the date of the original thread. Andi's idea of quoting the original isn't bad either -- you may actually be following up on a later posting, but it would encourage you to change the quote to something more relevant.

(Speaking of encouragement: Is it possible to turn off the italics for [quotes] that include the "=OP" argument? That's probably the #1 reason why people don't do proper attribution, even in a multi-quoted post.)

Randall

[Monty]

but have also seen this feature abused beyond belief in other forums. hmm, pet forums and user reputations being enabled might be interesting. Our group is pretty light hearted, and have been having fun with it.

Is the newest version of vB better for the servers than the old one? I am still running a patched 3.0 version, but would consider upgrading if there's a major preformance improvement with 3.5.

[Wassercrats]

We need a wish/hope smiley who's praying or has crossed fingers, and maybe a lucky smiley with a lucky charm.

I'm glad Randall finally described his update button idea. I don't like it. And art discussions should go in Open Discussions. It might need to be emphasized that ANY discussion not in violation of the guidelines can be put in Open Discussions without being off-topic. I noticed someone saying her...oh, now I see that it (http://www.aota.net/forums/showthread.php?t=19333) was off-topic. Maybe it should be moved. :EG:

[Wassercrats]

Oh, ok, go ahead and eliminate General Site Owner Support as I'm composing this so it looks like you found the problem before me. Ok, then I'm claiming to have thought of Randall's update button idea before him. http://perlmonks.com/?node_id=385459

Which raises another problem with voting on posts. Some people downvote seemingly small updates even if they contain useful information.

EDIT...I see nothing was deleted, but I'm still claiming Randall's idea as my own.

P.S. If you click in the editing text box at the end of your text and hit enter to add a new line, the window expands and re-wraps text. It makes it look like the text might have been changed, but it's not.

[Randall]

I like the little arrow buttons that expand/contract the edit window -- useful on big monitors. And switching from the normal editor to WYSIWYG on the fly is very cool.

Unfortunately, Cmd-Left on the Mac still wants to toss me out of the editor in WYSIWYG mode. :sad: But now that I'm using a utility called DoubleCommand (http://doublecommand.sourceforge.net) to make the Home and End keys act like they do in Windows (ie, send you to the beginning/end of the current line, which is what Cmd-left/right is supposed to be doing), maybe I don't have to worry about it anymore.

Also nice to see that links can be applied to existing text in the normal edit mode now. :yeah: Ok, then I'm claiming to have thought of Randall's update button idea before him. http://perlmonks.com/?node_id=385459 Doesn't sound like prior art to me -- an update notification system is not an update button. :teach:

And contrary to what you suggested above, I think art discussions (prior or otherwise) belong in Web Site & Graphic Design. Originally Posted by an anonymous monk at Perl Monks (http://perlmonks.com/?node_id=385899)
What do you like about Perl Monks, other than annoying everybody? I see your reputation is spreading. :rolleyes:

Randall

[Wassercrats]

And yet another problem with user reputations. People will feel they have to register as different users, or be anonymous, to say something negative.an update notification system is not an update buttonYour idea is nothing without mine. We need a way to tell readers of the original thread that there's new information available.I see your reputation is spreading.Like hot butter on our breakfast toast, baby bubbah. And real creamery butter too. Ain't no margarine here.

[Randall]

Your idea is nothing without mine. We need a way to tell readers of the original thread that there's new information available. A special "update" notification would be required, yes. The hypothetical Update plugin would handle that along with the other, more important, stuff.

The Update button could be restricted to people who've already posted in the old thread, much like the edit button is only available for your own postings. Or not. In either case, placing the Update button on individual posts -- replacing the Quote button, since the functionality is similar -- would make more sense than a thread-level Update option, and it fulfills Andi's requirement (http://www.aota.net/forums/showthread.php?postid=139922#post139922) nicely.

* * *

We still don't have a way to turn off automatic link parsing by default. :hrmm:

And the "advanced" reply editor hasn't really improved much from vb2: The lack of useful in-thread navigation or linking aids is a pain. You have to click on that tiny "Click here (showthread.php?t=20244) to review the whole thread" link to get access to post ID anchors or to view more than the last ten replies, or to see Andi's avatar before she changes it again in mid-edit and ruins a witty (or witless) comment.

Quick Reply solves most of those problems, but you give up a lot of the formatting buttons along with one-click access to the :EG: smiley. And there's no preview -- unless you Go Advanced and lose all of the benefits of the Quick Reply in the process.

We need an inline advanced reply editor, is what it boils down to. Maybe in vb4. :dunno:

Randall

[Joseph]

We still don't have a way to turn off automatic link parsing by default. :hrmm:

I would suggest bringing that one up with Jelsoft. :smile:


And the "advanced" reply editor hasn't really improved much from vb2:

Well, there isn't much more you can add, without becoming rather bloated. Though I think WYSIWYG is a nice update since vB2. :wink:


The lack of useful in-thread navigation or linking aids is a pain. You have to click on that tiny "Click here to review the whole thread" link to get access to post ID anchors or to view more than the last ten replies, or to see Andi's avatar before she changes it again in mid-edit and ruins a witty (or witless) comment.


Quick Reply solves most of those problems, but you give up a lot of the formatting buttons along with one-click access to the :EG: smiley. And there's no preview -- unless you Go Advanced and lose all of the benefits of the Quick Reply in the process.

We need an inline advanced reply editor, is what it boils down to. Maybe in vb4. :dunno:

Randall
It takes a lot of server resources to put all of that information on the screen at once, which is likely why most of it hasn't been added to vB. If they can find a server-friendly way of putting all of that into the reply page, you might start seeing more of it in future versions (such as vB4). At this time though, I would be rather concerned about pulling that much info for everyone posting a reply to a thread...

There is a button on the Quick Reply box to bring up the smilies, which does allow for the clickable smilie features (it is a two click process, but at least you don't have to "Go Advanced"). :smile:

I will look in to adding a plugin that may allow Avatars and/or Post Anchors to be in the thread review section, but I'm not in a position yet to make any promises. :wink: I also may have a seen a Quick Reply Preview plugin somewhere along the way, but I honestly can't remember at this point. I'll check around though and see if I can find it (if it exists).

[Andilinks]

...or to see Andi's avatar before she changes it again in mid-edit and ruins a witty (or witless) comment.OK, I won't change it again until all the comments are exhausted. :)

[Wassercrats]

That "quick reply, please wait" message when you click "post quick reply" is weird. I'd just say "posting reply, please wait." Also, the smiley window opens fast enough but the smilies take forever to appear. That might be my computer though.

[dank]

Much of this could be addressed by building in an "Update" or "Follow-up" button: it would help automate the process and encourage follow-ups, without defeating the purpose of the time limit.
What is the purpose of the time limit? I can't think of any good reason to close a thread purely on the basis of time elapsed... It can't be to keep them from getting too big or too off topic, since that sort of thing presumably would not go 60 days without replies, anyway.

I would say that 60 days is definitely not long enough except that it is always possible to begin a new thread quoting significant portions of the old thread with a link to it.
However, anyone following the old thread loses the benefit of the new thread -- it's only useful in reverse -- unless the mods are going to take on the extra work of adding cross links to all such closed threads, which again makes me wonder what the purpose is and whether it's worth bothering. Or would the "Update" button being proposed automatically update the old thread, as well?

Dan

[Wassercrats]

What is the purpose of the time limit?I remember it started when someone replied to an old thread and one of the original posters to that thread was notified of the reply and had to remember his old password to respond. I've wanted to respond to really old threads and wasn't able to without starting a new thread, but I'm not sure if it was good or bad. In my case, I had nothing important to say several of those times and didn't bother posting at all.would the "Update" button being proposed automatically update the old thread, as well?Yes, as mentioned in this thread. I added that proposal to Randall's idea, and he agreed.

[dank]

I remember it started when someone replied to an old thread and one of the original posters to that thread was notified of the reply and had to remember his old password to respond.
That's hardly something to lose sleep over. I would hope there's a much stronger reason than that for the policy change.

Dan

[Wassercrats]

This (http://www.aota.net/forums/showthread.php?postid=108883#post108883) reply had something to do with it. Deb announced the time limit here (http://www.aota.net/forums/showthread.php?postid=109028#post109028). You'll notice that I help restore sanity at the end of that thread, as usual.

[dank]

I still fail to see why that "issue" led to the need to expire threads. Even the person most affected by the elapsed time oversight had this to say:

It was because I did not notice that the message was so old. Even so I think it right to make such a correction even at such late a date as these messages never seem to die.
So, the change which supposedly should eliminate such headaches for people actually goes against what the affected person apparently wishes for. Have I said yet that the policy change makes no sense?

Dan

[Andilinks]

Yes, sixty days is much too short. Dan is right that a new thread works only in reverse and since these older threads are cached by Google and the other SE's for much longer than a year it is entirely conceivable that people will be reading them well into the future.

I initially complained about having to read a five year old thread but even that inconvenience is probably not offset by the loss of continuity for old threads. While some things are useless and obsolete after a year most are not.

I once suggested that the date of the first post be listed with the thread as well as the date of the last post which would have overcome the problem better than locking the threads after a year. I never suggested that that be done and remember thinking at the time that it was an extreme remedy to my off-hand complaint. A year is perhaps reasonable, 60 days is too short.

Andi

[Andilinks]

Yet there still seems a nagging doubt, which I've filed away in my nagging doubt folder.I seem to have misplaced this folder has anyone seen it lying about somewhere?

[Joseph]

I would hope there's a much stronger reason than that for the policy change.
There a lot of topics on aota that do not need to be brought back to the top after a very long time (Is my Server Down? - Will FutureQuest install this? - Why is this configured this way on the servers? - etc, etc). While we do promote and encourage the friendly and community atmosphere, it is important to remember that these forums are still revolving around a business.

As such, if an old topic asking why FutureQuest doesn't have a Perl Module installed (which has since actually been installed) in brought back to the top - new visitors may see it as fresh information and turn away from FutureQuest as they think it doesn't have what their site requires. This is a very simple example, however I think the point is clear enough.

60 Days is a very long time to not receive any new posts in a thread - and if there is an old thread that needs something added to it, you can always create a brand new thread. :smile:

The issue of creating an "Update" button is rather pointless IMO. If anyone can press the "Update" button to bring the thread back to life, then there's no point in Expiring it in the first place. We have discussed allowing the Thread Starter to revive his/her own threads, however even this would need to be limited (there really is no point in reviving a 2+ year old topic).


Yes, sixty days is much too short. Dan is right that a new thread works only in reverse and since these older threads are cached by Google and the other SE's for much longer than a year it is entirely conceivable that people will be reading them well into the future.

This is true, but then again Archive.org will have them for even longer. We can't stop people from finding old threads - but what we are doing is stopping people from finding old threads right in with new threads - and making it difficult to tell the difference.

@Randall:
There isn't a "Preview Quick Reply" plugin - I was thinking of the "Preview PM" plugin... :hrmm:

[dank]

An alternative suggestion to locking threads in 60 days (assuming the decision to lock them is already set in stone) is to do so after 11 months. Reason being that same-year stuff is unlikely to have the date oversight issue, since the months are chronological and that's what most people pay attention to. It's only the year that seems to trip people up, and anything more than a year old is minimizing the impact of such a policy.

Dan

[dank]

There a lot of topics on aota that do not need to be brought back to the top after a very long time (Is my Server Down? - Will FutureQuest install this? - Why is this configured this way on the servers? - etc, etc).
How often does that happen? Seems like an extremely minimal case to me. Remember what I said in the other thread about the apparent moderation purely for moderation's sake? I didn't even know about this policy at the time, but it's a perfect example of what I was referring to. Band-aid applications of policy that do little more than distract attention.

As such, if an old topic asking why FutureQuest doesn't have a Perl Module installed (which has since actually been installed) in brought back to the top - new visitors may see it as fresh information and turn away from FutureQuest as they think it doesn't have what their site requires.
Has that ever happened and gone unanswered by staff? If not, it's an irrelevant example.

Dan

[Joseph]

How often does that happen? Seems like an extremely minimal case to me. Remember what I said in the other thread about the apparent moderation purely for moderation's sake? I didn't even know about this policy at the time, but it's a perfect example of what I was referring to. Band-aid applications of policy that do little more than distract attention.

It's a minimal case now, thanks to Expired Threads. However it was rather popular before we implemented Expired Threads.

I'm rather offended by your constant comment that we simply moderate for moderations sake, as I do not think that's the case at all. We have very simple rules & policies - and we only "enforce" when we need to. Moving threads is hardly an offensive measure in my eyes, and locking very old threads is simply a process of maintenance. On other public forums, members who bump a thread more then two weeks old commonly get harassed by other members because of it. 60 Days and you simply get locked is very reasonable. :smile:

In fact, even in the example thread Wassercrats posted - the topic quickly turned into "Whoa, this thread is old." replies instead of continuing any worthy conversation.

Has that ever happened and gone unanswered by staff? If not, it's an irrelevant example.

I think you misunderstood - I was referring to someone host-hunting, and viewing the forums to see what they were like. If said hunter finds a topic that makes him assume that FutureQuest doesn't offer something his site depends on, then he will scratch FutureQuest from his list and go for another host that does offer it. Even if FutureQuest does actually offer the service and it's simply an old thread that was bumped that caused him to think we didn't.

[Jeff]

I think the point of the update button is that it prevents people from accidentally confusing an old thread with a current thread, yet it still allows someone to update an old thread when there is news to report on an ongoing question, or when they want to know "how has that solution worked out over time for you?" I like the idea of an update button or a nag screen - prevent people from accidentally dragging up old threads, but allow people to add to or question things that do take time to develop.

[dank]

I'm rather offended by your constant comment that we simply moderate for moderations sake
You're offended by feedback from the other side of the fence regarding how you're actions are received? That's brilliant customer service. Negative or not, it is feedback, and I dare say constructive.

We have very simple rules & policies - and we only "enforce" when we need to.
Each example I've given of where that enforcement is unnecessary, in my opinion, has been promptly disregarded, which doesn't inspire much confidence in your statement above. It's much like my take on the infamous Reseller's thread(s) -- make a decision, announce it, then cut off discussion and say all the wanted feedback was already solicited. I know you guys mean well, but I find myself increasingly baffled by the decision making process over the past year or two. And lest you think it's just me, several people have PM'd me as a result of the other threads and said they share the same concerns.

In fact, even in the example thread Wassercrats posted - the topic quickly turned into "Whoa, this thread is old." replies instead of continuing any worthy conversation.
Yes, and you're still ignoring the fact that the person most directly affected by that thread said it merited a late response. You're being extremely selective in which side of the issue you choose to acknowledge.

I think you misunderstood - I was referring to someone host-hunting, and viewing the forums to see what they were like. If said hunter finds a topic that makes him assume that FutureQuest doesn't offer something his site depends on, then he will scratch FutureQuest from his list and go for another host that does offer it.
In which case, how do you know that's actually happening/happened if they aren't posting here about it? Are you tracking down peoples' posts elsewhere saying such or just guessing at the possibility?

Dan

[Randall]

The issue of creating an "Update" button is rather pointless IMO. If anyone can press the "Update" button to bring the thread back to life, then there's no point in Expiring it in the first place. We have discussed allowing the Thread Starter to revive his/her own threads, however even this would need to be limited (there really is no point in reviving a 2+ year old topic). I personally had no problem with the 1 year limit. As Dan pointed out, it eliminates the potential confusion between 10-07-2005 and 10-07-2004, and 11 months probably would be more effective. Odds are that few people would (knowingly) revive a thread that old, so an Update button probably isn't necessary, restricted or not.

But when you shorten that time frame to 60 days I think you will see (or not see because they're a non-event) Andi's unintended consequences -- new visitors losing interest in the topic because they'd feel self-conscious about starting a new thread and may not yet have the vB skills to link back to the original (and isn't there some kind of restriction on posting links for new members?).

And having a visible link between the two threads would help people avoid repeating themselves. :wink:

The Update button itself could expire after the 11-month point, if you think no one will ever have a valid reason to reopen the discusssion. But I think there is a place for anniversary threads, and a built-in mechanism for cross-linking them would be very welcome.

I notice Apple's forum shuts down threads as soon as they decide the "question has been answered," which could be a matter of hours. It doesn't exactly encourage newcomers to participate. But that's the Long Arm of Steve Jobs for you. I think the point of the update button is that it prevents people from accidentally confusing an old thread with a current thread, yet it still allows someone to update an old thread when there is news to report on an ongoing question, or when they want to know "how has that solution worked out over time for you?" I like the idea of an update button or a nag screen - prevent people from accidentally dragging up old threads, but allow people to add to or question things that do take time to develop. Exactly. And it has the side benefit that the entry point for the discussion is now in the new thread, meaning no one has to wade through six pages of old postings to find out what the heck was so important that the topic had to be resurrected.

And the fact that it is a new thread may actually discourage spam postings and pointless "me toos," which do happen sometimes.

Here's another answer to the Joseph's skepticism: You could insert an informative "Are you sure you want to do this?" page in between the clicking of the Update button and the commencement of the update process. Explain that this thread expired xx days/months/years ago, and that the moderators reserve the right to delete frivolous or unhelpful "updates" -- or to lock the thread permanently if the update feature has been abused.

Esssentially, an Update button would give us an established and standardized means for bringing stuff up to date or revisiting old wish list requests ("Are we there yet?"). As such, if an old topic asking why FutureQuest doesn't have a Perl Module installed (which has since actually been installed) in brought back to the top - new visitors may see it as fresh information and turn away from FutureQuest as they think it doesn't have what their site requires. Here's the flipside for you: Someone Googles up that old thread and turns away anyway. The staff could make use of that same update process to lead people on to new information, with links to the Update thread at the top and bottom of the old one -- or on every page, even. You're offended by feedback from the other side of the fence regarding how you're actions are received? That's brilliant customer service. Negative or not, it is feedback, and I dare say constructive. Please, let's try to keep it friendly, OK? I don't want this to turn into another epic but ultimately repetitive anti-debate. This issue isn't that critical.

Randall

[dank]

This issue isn't that critical.
It may not be critical, but it's central to what I see going on.

Dan

[MarkM]

Closing threads, and having new threads about the same topic increases the chances of being googleized.
I would think that closing /expiring threads has more to do with the prevalence of members of a forum to needlessly or mistakenly bump older threads, as well as to the nature of a specific forum.
What makes it worse at FQ is that the revived threads' text does not appear in email notification - the reader does not have the option to disregard the post, but is forced to visit the site to make judgement on it's relevancy.

Laying down a blanket rule for closing threads is a win/lose situation ...
Better control of content for management vs lesser chance that a poster will care to follow up with an update on discussion.
When it comes to service requests, it makes sense to expire a thread when an issue is resolved.
But in this ever changing world, especially in the technology arena, what was said today may be viewed differently tomorrow, next month or next year.

Different forum folks have diferent management strokes ...
As such I prefer to have no thread expiry date at my forums, but rather use other editorial tools to manage forum content...
:ytguido: :blowhorn: :jackham: :@ :QTwork: :bang:

~ Mark ;)

[Melissa]

You're offended by feedback from the other side of the fence regarding how you're actions are received? That's brilliant customer service. Negative or not, it is feedback, and I dare say constructive. Constructive feedback is ALWAYS heard and appreciated. Receiving ideas from "the other side of the fence" is a big part of what has made FutureQuest what it is today. Although it may not always happen that we're able to fulfill everyone's requests, it isn't because of a lack of listening. There's some really good input here and I can tell you it will be considered. This isn't a place where you'll ever hear the words "because that's just the way it's always been done." Sometimes change is required and sometimes it's even a good thing. ;) There has to be a certain amount of trust and realization that we're really all on the same team. So lets do try to keep it friendly as Randall said and keep the constructive contributions coming.

[Andilinks]

I've pointed out earlier that I think Joseph is doing a fine job with these forums and is in general quite competent. here comes the "but..."

But in other dealings I've had with him, one in particular not aired on these forums, I find that he tends to err on the side of "enforcement" over customer service. I suppose at times it is appropriate, the customer is not always right. However I think a decision that may alienate customers and erode good will is a decision that should be made above Joseph's pay grade.

I agree with the others on this that 11 or 12 months is a good amount of time for a thread to remain open for the reasons they have already given and I will be disappointed if threads begin closing after 60 days.

Just my opinion.

Andi

[Wassercrats]

I find that he tends to err on the side of "enforcement" over customer service.Explaining why things work as they do is part of customer service. Customizing vBulletin or changing a policy based on the request of a few customers or just Andi shouldn't be expected.

There's still misunderstanding about what Randall proposed. Randall wants an update button in the old thread to start a new thread with something prepended to the original title to indicate that it's an update. A link to the new thread could be placed in various places within the old thread. The presence of an update button in the old thread would also indicate to people that it's old. Subscribers to the old thread would be notified that it's been updated, but maybe that should be optional.

[Andilinks]

...changing a policy based on the request of a few customers or just Andi shouldn't be expected.FQ should do what is in its own best interest and in this case I think closing threads after 60 days will alienate customers and erode good will. I am not trying to exert my influence as a customer, I am voicing my opinion about good customer service and the need for careful consideration of such decisions.

Who misunderstood Randall's proposal? I didn't ponder every possible ramification, what is seldom understood is that most decisions have unintended consequenses. Barriers to old information is an insult to history and experience.

Andi

[Wassercrats]

Who misunderstood Randall's proposal? I didn't ponder every possible ramification...Not you, I mean Joseph, and maybe Dank.The issue of creating an "Update" button is rather pointless IMO. If anyone can press the "Update" button to bring the thread back to life, then there's no point in Expiring it in the first place.Joseph missed the part about a new thread being created.

[MarkM]

This is an interesting plugin which I hope becomes further refined ...

Fork Threads (http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?t=94420)
Boring Preamble
Sometimes a thread gets really long or some posts generate interesting but off topic conversation. I wanted to test the new cool product manager system and thought of this very simple mod to add Fork Thread functionality to the end user.

What it does
Allows the end user to divert off-topic tangents into a new thread, while automatically quoting the original thread.

~ Mark
:EG: minus Fork

[dank]

Not you, I mean Joseph, and maybe Dank.
I'm pretty sure I understood...

Dan

[Andilinks]

This is an interesting plugin which I hope becomes further refined ...

Fork Threads (http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?t=94420)


~ Mark
:EG: minus Fork
The forking concept sounds great and it seems to be received well over at vB Forum though I couldn't view the screenshots. I'd like to see examples.

Andi

[Deb]

Sheeesshhh, look what happens when I try to sneak away for a day :P

There's still misunderstanding about what Randall proposed. Randall wants an update button in the old thread to start a new thread with something prepended to the original title to indicate that it's an update. A link to the new thread could be placed in various places within the old thread. The presence of an update button in the old thread would also indicate to people that it's old. Subscribers to the old thread would be notified that it's been updated, but maybe that should be optional. I do like this idea.... Does anyone know of an existing hack ... ?

...

and then I see This is an interesting plugin which I hope becomes further refined ...

Fork Threads (http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?t=94420) It appears to need some revision to work exactly as desired but at least it's on the right track... but alas... that's another thread :P

An alternative suggestion to locking threads in 60 days (assuming the decision to lock them is already set in stone) is to do so after 11 months. The following Quote is from ?page5? of this thread
http://aota.net/forums/showthread.php?postid=139921#post139921

Over time if it needs adjusting we can do just that... reviewing what the current usage is makes it appear that 60 days is likely enough. It's adjustable though if required. Time will tell ....

Three things to note:

a) It's not set in stone... as explained, we're just refining as I feel a year is too long in most cases.

b) Just for clarity (I believe most of you know this already) Threads do NOT expire until there has been NO response for 60 days. If the thread is receiving responses then it will not expire.

c) We can set different expire dates in different forums. I can see allowing some forums to last longer while keeping other forums to a minimum.

Immediate Notices and Alerts do not need to be open for more than a week or two max. If a client is having a new problem with a server it should go to email or a new thread as opposed to bringing up an old alert which can confuse other viewers. Alternatively, a thread about an ongoing project such as a vb installation may be best open longer for others to chime in.

We'll make some modifications this weekend to extend the time in open forums, however, I'm proposing 4 months (120 days) not 11 or more. I really do believe that if a topic has not received a response in 4 months then it's likely time to update it and start with fresh content. If we don't start a new thread then many people will never make it to the ending comments of an old, potentially long, thread....

Is the newest version of vB better for the servers than the old one? I am still running a patched 3.0 version, but would consider upgrading if there's a major preformance improvement with 3.5. Monty, I'm really not sure yet. I'd like to assume it is but we've not had enough time to really make the call in that area....

Deb
- He's just like Terra.... is that really a BadThing(TM)? :safegrin:

[dank]

If we don't start a new thread then many people will never make it to the ending comments of an old, potentially long, thread....
How is jumping into the middle of an extended thread any better?

Dan

[Andilinks]

The fork feature will produce something more like blog entries with commentary. An extemely long linear thread is more difficult and time consuming than one which contains branches that may be optionally ignored if they are less interesting or relevant than the main topic.

In other words, the off-topic posts will be identified better.

I really like the feature that allows visible comments on each post, example:

http://forums.seochat.com/showpost.php?p=224657&postcount=1

Andi

[Randall]

Yep, that Fork plugin sounds like it's already halfway there. And might be useful in its own right.

If it can be done retroactively it'd be even better, because you don't always realize you're drifting off topic until It's Too Late.

Randall

[Monty]

Wow, I was wondering if anyone was going to look at server issues and answer my question, Deb. There's nothing in 3.5 that I *need*, but as always, I would consider an upgrade if it would help things run smoother or safer.

[sheila]

Wow, I was wondering if anyone was going to look at server issues and answer my question, Deb. There's nothing in 3.5 that I *need*, but as always, I would consider an upgrade if it would help things run smoother or safer.
Monty, I don't think there has been sufficient opportunity yet for vB 3.5 to be observed to form a good conclusion on this matter. It's only been out for a short time, after all. ;)

[MarkM]

Hi Monty, here's all the new features and functionalities for 3.5

http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/showpost.php?p=972250&postcount=4

I'm too busy this month to do the upgrade but will certainly be moving on soon.

I have no idea what post #9 means ...
Please note that a bug in Turck MM Cache will prevent vBulletin 3.5 from functioning.
To retain the (huge) benefits of running an MM Cache, you should switch your server to use eAccelerator instead.

~ Mark

I feel sorry for Joseph ... we're taking over his Thread ..
Maybe time for a banana SPLIT ;)

[Monty]

uh oh, sorry Sheila. Just trying to be server/host friendly, that's all. I know Terra has *many* hours into tweaking my forums server, and I only want to enhance that effort. I have been in "no changes" mode for a while, and was just inquiring. There's plenty I don't care for in the new release, but I would never let my personal preferences keep me from doing what's in the best interest of the FutureQuest community. Thanks to Joseph and all the rest of you that have worked to enhance the forums here on aota.net.

[Deb]

FYI - The thread expiration time limit has been moved up to 120 days (4 months). If we find that it's still not long enough after it's been given some time.. we can of course adjust it.

The main goal is to try and keep current topics current while of course maintaining the ability to link back to older threads. An "Update/Continue" button on expired threads that quotes/starts a new thread is an idea I like... Hopefully we'll be able to hack that in at some point... as well as looking deeper into forking (though I think that needs more work to fit in well here).

I also want to highlight this comment again...
You're offended by feedback from the other side of the fence regarding how you're actions are received? That's brilliant customer service. Negative or not, it is feedback, and I dare say constructive. I agree with you 100% that feedback is the most valuable asset a company (or human being) can have. Negative or not, as long as it is constructive it's worth oodles. We do need to respond to it as best as we can and the response is not always received with open arms but that delves into communication skills which are vitally important but rarely perfected. Speaking for the whole of FutureQuest I want to assure you that we NEVER want you to feel that your feedback is not needed. All of us will always continue to work at improving our receptors in that area as well as our responses.

RE: some comments I've received about Joseph being the new "Forum Leader/Manager/Ruler" whatever.. please note that the "Leadership" within the forums hasn't changed. It's still you the community with the FutureQuest Team being here to try and keep it on track. The only thing Joseph is doing is the leg work in the area of keeping the forums upgraded and clicking the buttons that need clicking in an effort to get them back on track in the area of tidiness and topic retention etc. He's not making the rules... he's just trying to help us all follow them and explain what's happening when he's question about them. I clarify this only because it's not fair to Joseph to take the heat alone for something myself and/or the team are requesting as a result of the requests and needs of the community as a whole. I'm extremely appreciative of his efforts to assist in this area because it was long overdue and I myself have not had as much time to do it. I believe with time and continued support (or hard knock training from the community as the case may be :P) he'll be quite an asset for all of us. If not... we can always vote him off the island later :dopey:

Deb
- Appreciation is a wonderful thing. It makes what is excellent in others belong to us as well.

[Wassercrats]

I believe with time and continued support (or hard knock training from the community as the case may be) he'll be quite an asset for all of us.I thought he already was, but I'll think less of him if I have to.

I needed to change a post in Last Word today but I must have been a few hours late. I wanted to change a link to the permalink version. More time for edits would have helped, but I'm not sure it would be a good thing overall.

[Randall]

I thought he already was, but I'll think less of him if I have to. Ever the agreeably disagreeable one. :rolleyes: I needed to change a post in Last Word today but I must have been a few hours late. At one point I found myself editing a post that was well past the four hour mark, so I figured the new time limit wasn't in effect yet. I'll check in again at 10:30 to see if this one's still editable.

Randall

[Joseph]

At one point I found myself editing a post that was well past the four hour mark, so I figured the new time limit wasn't in effect yet. I'll check in again at 10:30 to see if this one's still editable.
It appears that the time limit on editing posts was reverted back to the vB default (1 day) for some reason during the upgrade - however this has been fixed and the limit reset to 4 hours. :smile:

I would also like to point out that the time limit for editting posts is by no means a "new time limit" - it's been setup in this manner since Aota was upgraded to vB3 - and possibly before (I don't remember). :wink:

If not... we can always vote him off the island later :dopey:
:ytshark:

[Randall]

I would also like to point out that the time limit for editting posts is by no means a "new time limit" - it's been setup in this manner since Aota was upgraded to vB3 I vaguely recall that it was changed during the last upgrade, but I couldn't remember what the new limit was. So shoot me. :bang: :clown:

Psst -- the smilies window is still too small to see both columns. Checked it on Windows and the Mac, Firefox and IE.

Randall

[Joseph]

Psst -- the smilies window is still too small to see both columns. Checked it on Windows and the Mac, Firefox and IE.

Should be fixed now. :yeah:

[Randall]

Should be fixed now. :yeah: Yay!

Someone should ask Jelsoft why their smiley window shrinks everytime we do an upgrade.

Randall

[Joseph]

omeone should ask Jelsoft why their smiley window shrinks everytime we do an upgrad

The size of the window is a Javascript variable, and the Javascript had a major upgrade during the last upgrade (you don't think all that AJAX just magically happened? :P) - as such I had to go back and fix the value of the variable to be... bigger. :smile:

However, it's not a problem on smaller upgrades (these forums have actually been upgraded 8 times since we moved to vB3) - just on big ones like vB3.5 :wink:

[Randall]

these forums have actually been upgraded 8 times since we moved to vB3 Ack! Nobody warned me! :ytyikes:

What else have you done when no one was looking -- switched me over to fat-free donuts?

Randall

[Randall]

Um ... trying to post to this thread (http://www.aota.net/forums/showthread.php?t=20116) from less than a month ago... Sorry! This thread has expired. Huh? :umm:

Randall

[Deb]

Um ... trying to post to this thread (http://www.aota.net/forums/showthread.php?t=20116) from less than a month ago... Huh? :umm:

"Notices and Alerts" expire in two weeks as they tend to pertain to NOW issues rather than ongoing issues. A thread like the one you mentioned should be continued in the community discussion forums for ongoing discussion. A Server Down or Network type problem should never last more than a countable number of minutes and therefore the issue should be closed rather quickly to encourage "new problems" (ugh) to remain in current threads. Those types of threads need the first post to actually pertain to "now" so they do not confuse people who are visiting in search for answers concerning current issues rather than past issues.

Deb
- Is the downtime three weeks ago why my domain is expired?

[Randall]

"Notices and Alerts" expire in two weeks as they tend to pertain to NOW issues rather than ongoing issues. One could argue that AOL blocking port 25 is an ongoing issue (and if they're like a lot of ISPs, they're probably not implementing it all at once). But I'll concede the point. My real question is why the thread isn't marked as locked? The distinction between "now" and "ongoing" isn't necessarily obvious, and without a visual indicator it just creates confusion.

I know I was confused, anyway. :safegrin:

Randall

[Deb]

One could argue that AOL blocking port 25 is an ongoing issue (and if they're like a lot of ISPs, they're probably not implementing it all at once). But I'll concede the point. Which is why I said A thread like the one you mentioned should be continued in the community discussion forums for ongoing discussion. :P

My real question is why the thread isn't marked as locked? The distinction between "now" and "ongoing" isn't necessarily obvious, and without a visual indicator it just creates confusion.

I know I was confused, anyway. :safegrin: That's my real question too. It IS confusing. We had an 'EXPIRED' notation prior to the upgrade and after the upgrade it was lost. Joseph's still looking into what caused that so it can be fixed.

Deb
- I like plus plus plus features not plus minus plus plus minus features :confuz:

[Joseph]

That's my real question too. It IS confusing. We had an 'EXPIRED' notation prior to the upgrade and after the upgrade it was lost. Joseph's still looking into what caused that so it can be fixed.

All fixed now - you should now see an "Expired" button in place of the "Post Reply" button (assuming that said topic is actually expired of course). :smile:

[Randall]

I am very much liking the new tracking of read/unread posts. I can zip in to post an annoying question and then come back hours later to get caught up on the other threads I was ignoring. :rasberry:

It even understands that the "first unread post" really is the first unread post. :yeah: All fixed now - you should now see an "Expired" button in place of the "Post Reply" button Well, almost. :winky: This thread (http://www.aota.net/forums/showthread.php?t=17751) has a lock icon and no Quote or Quick Reply buttons on any of the posts. You couldn't reply to it even if you had a sledgehammer and a large entourage of marmots.

The AOL thread (http://www.aota.net/forums/showthread.php?t=20116), on the other hand, does not have those cues. So it's still confusing -- you can easily miss the Expired button (or forget about it in the heat of the thread-reading moment) and then try to Quote one of those posts. D'oh!

Randall

[Deb]

Ditto on the new tracking. It helps a TON! Well, almost. This thread has a lock icon and no Quote or Quick Reply buttons on any of the posts. You couldn't reply to it even if you had a sledgehammer and a large entourage of marmots.

The AOL thread, on the other hand, does not have those cues. So it's still confusing -- you can easily miss the Expired button (or forget about it in the heat of the thread-reading moment) and then try to Quote one of those posts. D'oh! Both look the exact same to me. Both have the expired button and both still have the Quote/QuickReply buttons on each post. It may take a bit more hacking... but at least now it is working the same as it used to work. That's a step in the right direction :)

Deb
- It's hard to keep a good :QTbars: down :P

[Randall]

Both look the exact same to me. Both have the expired button and both still have the Quote/QuickReply buttons on each post. Ah, but we've learned from past experience that Things Look Different to the Staff. They still look different from this end.

Besides, we'd expect not to see the Quote and QuickReply buttons.

Randall

[Snarpy]

Ah, but we've learned from past experience that Things Look Different to the Staff. They still look different from this end.Yepers. Different to me.

Another Port Bites The Dust has a closed icon and no quote or edit icon.

The AOL thread has an expired icon and does have quote and edit icons.

Hmmm. Is this a skin difference?....will be back after testing....

Snarpy

Interesting...in the default skin they both have an expired icon, but only the AOL thread has the quote and edit icons.

Now let me go back and get my nice, soothing Old Blue back.

[Joseph]

Everybody ignore Deb's post :rasberry:

There's a few more things that I'm still working on to get the new Expired threads to work like the old Expired threads - and it should all be done soon (within the hour). :yeah:

[Joseph]

Ok, all should be well now. :smile:

Closed threads now show a "Closed" button instead of the "Expired" button. Both Closed & Expired threads remove the Edit/Quote/Quick Reply buttons from the Postbit - and this all works in both FutureQuest vB3 and Old Blue v1.5. :smile:

[Snarpy]

and this all works in both FutureQuest vB3 and Old Blue v1.5.Thanks! :flowrpwr: I didn't think Old Blue was going to be supported.

Snarpy
One of these days I'm going slip up and sign my Real Name or one of my other screen names. I'm juggling too many identitites. It's time to start using the sig capability before I forget who I am.:confuz:

[Deb]

Everybody ignore Deb's post :ytfly2:
It was still early

Thanks for covering for me :bow:

Deb
- Give me a productive error over a boring, mundane and unproductive fact any day. :P

[Randall]

The AOL thread is now well and truly unreplyable. :winky:

But I'm wondering if the terminology should be reversed. To me, "closed" implies that someone closed the thread for a Very Good Reason, whereas "expired" simply means that it's been Cancelled Due to Lack of Interest... One of these days I'm going slip up and sign my Real Name or one of my other screen names. I'm juggling too many identitites. It's time to start using the sig capability before I forget who I am. Not easy leading a double life, eh?

But don't worry -- we won't tell anyone. :wink:

Randall

[Joseph]

But I'm wondering if the terminology should be reversed. To me, "closed" implies that someone closed the thread for a Very Good Reason, whereas "expired" simply means that it's been Cancelled Due to Lack of Interest...
That's the way it is setup now...:dunno:

[Randall]

That's the way it is setup now... Here's what I see:

Year-old thread (http://www.aota.net/forums/showthread.php?t=17751), closed.
Month-old "now" thread (http://www.aota.net/forums/showthread.php?t=20116), expired. So a thread that's been closed for administrative reasons -- over and above the automatic four-month time limit -- is "expired"? Sounds backward to me. :dunno:

Randall

[Joseph]

Here's what I see:

Year-old thread (http://www.aota.net/forums/showthread.php?t=17751), closed.
Month-old "now" thread (http://www.aota.net/forums/showthread.php?t=20116), expired.So a thread that's been closed for administrative reasons -- over and above the automatic four-month time limit -- is "expired"? Sounds backward to me. :dunno:

Randall

Oh, I understand now. :smile:

What you're seeing is "old dirty hack" mixed with "new clean plugin" with a good dash of "pulling up really old stuff" thrown in :P

Previously (prior to vB3.5) when a thread was "expired" it was actually "closed" - meaning that an expired thread & a closed thread were actually the same thing. Now however, a closed thread & an expired thread are two seperate types of thread. If someone closes a thread today, it will show as being closed. If a thread expires today it will show as expired. If a thread was "expired" before vB3.5 - it will show as "closed" today.

Unfortunately that's a by-product of the way expired threads used to be handled vs. the new way of handling them.

[MarkM]

It would be very cool if the phrase Closed etc could be individually tailored as per Thread in edit function, but no one has come up with a way to do this at vB (hopefully, yet).
http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/showthread.php?t=122886

~ Mark

[Randall]

It would be very cool if the phrase Closed etc could be individually tailored as per Thread in edit function, but no one has come up with a way to do this at vB (hopefully, yet). Huh. I would've thought you did have that kind of control. If a thread was "expired" before vB3.5 - it will show as "closed" today. OK, that explains the old thread I started. But what about the AOL thread? Shouldn't it also say "closed," since it predates the 3.5 upgrade? Or alternatively, if you expired it after the upgrade, shouldn't you have closed it instead?

Just trying to be a helpful PITA. :winky:

Randall

[Joseph]

But what about the AOL thread? Shouldn't it also say "closed," since it predates the 3.5 upgrade? Or alternatively, if you expired it after the upgrade, shouldn't you have closed it instead?

Only threads that actually "expired" previous to the vB3.5 upgrade would show as closed. Just because it was "started" previous to vB3.5 means nothing. :rasberry:

[Joseph]

Ok, I've just run a mass MySQL Query *shudder* to open all locked topics - and therefore convert them into Expired Topics. (I did of course go back and lock any topics that had been locked for a "reason" - yet hadn't been expired yet).

So, hopefully that will clear up the confusion - if it's "Closed" there was a human determined reason, if it's "Expired" it's too old, and if it's "Post Reply" feel free. :smile:

[Snarpy]

WOW Joseph. That is dedication.:bow:

Or you don't have enough to do? :dopey: jk.

My smilies disappeared in the quick reply box. I swear they used to be there.

[Wassercrats]

My smilies disappeared in the quick reply box. I swear they used to be there.Yeah, in addition to them loading slowly after the frame is shown, yesterday and today the frame minimized right after opening it, but just once yesterday and once (so far) today.

[Randall]

Woo-hoo! Now I can wander the archives at will and never be confused again. :winky:

(Well, maybe that's stretching it a little.)

Randall

[MarkM]

I don't see the Archive link that vB provides at the bottom footer, but maybe it was taken out here (?) ...

~ Mark

[Joseph]

I don't see the Archive link that vB provides at the bottom footer, but maybe it was taken out here (?) ...
It was, but I put it back. Though I wouldn't be a fan of surfing the forums via the Archive... not very pretty. :clown:

My smilies disappeared in the quick reply box. I swear they used to be there.
It appears that button didn't make it's way back into Old Blue - fixed. :yeah:

[MarkM]

Joseph wrote ...
"... Though I wouldn't be a fan of surfing the forums via the Archive... "

http://www.aota.net/forums/archive/index.php/

It is a much faster way to search through Titles of threads in a forum, and faster scimming through threads with a high post count.
However links in posts aren't directly clickable :(

The Archive seems to be visited a lot through internet searches.

~ Mark

[Snarpy]

Um, I don't see it.

Uh, now I do.

Uh, no I don't.

Let me figure this out....

Okay. The quick reply box has it, but the edit message box doesn't.

I posted a thanks, then decided it needed smilies in it, so I went to edit it and it wasn't there. Thought I was going bonkers for a minute.

Since I'm editing, I can't put in the smilies...oh, wait. Yes I can. I can click the smilie button in the quick reply box while I'm actually using the edit box. But then I have to cut and paste them.

:confuz: :blah: :hrmm: :dunno: :umm: :confuzed: :crazy: :ytcoffee:

Snarpy

[Joseph]

Important Update:

The, now available, FutureQuest-Blue Style is a Child Style of the main FutureQuest Default Style, and as such any changes made to the main style will be automatically reflected on this style. Therefore, there will never again be a "feature that only works on one" as the behind the scenes of both styles are exactly the same.

All Old Blue viewers, as well as anyone who feels the purple background on the posts is too dark, are highly encouraged to migrate to "FutureQuest-Blue".
Support for Old Blue has officially expired as we noted it would. :rasberry:

This will help us to ensure that all available styles are in sync without spending a great deal of development time trying to maintain two separate styles, since that time is better spent on features that affect more [than 10] clients overall. :wink:

Reminder: To change styles simply click on "Edit Options" in the "Quick Links" drop-down (or, click on the "Options" link to enter the main User Control Panel and then click on "Options" on the side bar) and select the skin you wish from the dropdown towards the bottom of that page. :smile:

[Wassercrats]

I posted a thanks, then decided it needed smilies in it, so I went to edit it and it wasn't there. Thought I was going bonkers for a minute.

Since I'm editing, I can't put in the smilies...

SnarpyThis was discussed here (http://www.aota.net/forums/showthread.php?postid=139844#post139844). While there's no specific rule requiring the grouping of sub-topics within a thread in consecutive posts, I feel your post violates the spirit of the guidelines. Unfortunately, there's no smiley menu for reporting bad posts, so I can't properly express my feelings about this issue and I won't report you.

In the quick, 21 smiley selection to the right, there should be a plain frown ( :sad: ). I think people are sad or disappointed more often than in love or in need of sunglasses.

Joseph's Important Update announces a different solution to the background color than was previously mentioned. It's good to be able to choose Old Blue, but I prefer the default style with lighter background colors.

...Somehow I missed Futurequest Blue. That's pretty much what I was expecting, so all's well. I was expecting something more purpley, but it will do.

[Joseph]

In the quick, 21 smiley selection to the right, there should be a plain frown ( :sad: ). I think people are sad or disappointed more often than in love or in need of sunglasses.

Well, in an effort to have the more common emotions on the common emoticons panel, the frown has been added to the quick smilie panel. :sad:

Joseph's Important Update announces a different solution to the background color than was previously mentioned. It's good to be able to choose Old Blue, but I prefer the default style with lighter background colors.

Allow me to present to you another new Child Style, "FutureQuest-Bright". :clown:

It's basically the same colors as FutureQuest Default, only lighter and with some more contrast. Hopefully this will be useful for those of you who are fond of the purple color, but want it be just a bit brighter. :smile:

[Wassercrats]

Thanks...it seems every time I look at the options there's a new one. I'm a bright man now, though my occasional use of this forum as a screen saver won't do as much good.

[MarkM]

Wassercrats wrote ... " ... I think people are sad or disappointed more often than in love or in need of sunglasses."

Ah but this (:vday2:) has greater special significance ... some things might be best expressed reservedly, lest reveal (true?) character of flakyness :wink:
But I must say that I :vday2: it that Joseph /FQ has upgraded to 3.5 before me, so I can utilize his expertise to rescue me/we, if an upgrade problem occurs ...

~ Mark

[Snarpy]

How am I supposed to remember what was discussed pages and pages back? It didn't bother me then because I'd never edited a post to include smilies before....:rasberry:

I think I'm going to opt for FQ Bright because the buttons and the edge coordinate with the other colors. Even though I like blue better by personal preference, I find it more soothing to have everything coordinate better. I know you FQ people can see what people choose so we don't need to "vote" but I thought I'd say why.

Thanks for your attention to all these piddly details, Joseph.

Wassercrats, I didn't think that modern monitors benefited from screen savers anymore.

Snarpy

[Andilinks]

I would like to echo Snarpy's post about the FQ bright option and also thank Joseph for his work on the forum. I wonder why Snarpy's signature is a fraction that reduces to one.

Andi / Andi

[Snarpy]

I wonder why Snarpy's signature is a fraction that reduces to one.Because I AM THE ONE!

Naw, it's because I'm using a signature, but it is a new habit and I'm still signing my name the old way sometimes. It is supposed to keep me from inadvertently signing my Real Name or one of my other screen names, but it isn't working because I still forget and sign my name manually.

[Wassercrats]

The Futurequest Bright looked fluorescent in the beginning, but I'm getting used to it. I might go back though.Wassercrats, I didn't think that modern monitors benefited from screen savers anymore.I don't think I've heard that, but there's also some gas that monitors emit that's not healthy, and I'm not sure what causes it. Then there's the dangerous plastic that's still used by some companies. We're all killing ourselves, you know.

Anyone know what smiley was replaced on the quick smiley menu?

[Randall]

I too am :smile: to see that :sad: has been added to the "basic smilies" list. Though I wouldn't be a fan of surfing the forums via the Archive... not very pretty. I was using the term "archives" in a more general sense, not knowing that there was a specific archive feauture in vB. (I always thought those rather plain-looking pages were there for printer/Google friendliness.)

FutureQuest-Bright is a little startling at first, but I think I'll get used to it (maybe it could use a little less saturation in the newly brightened colors). Of course, now Joseph's avatar doesn't blend into the background anymore. You really should pad it out to the full 90x90 so it won't look so cramped in the Child Styles. I didn't think that modern monitors benefited from screen savers anymore. CRTs are still vulnerable to burn-in if you leave them on for long periods of time. And I've even seen an LCD monitor with similar symptoms.

Screensavers are also useful for security purposes if your PC is password protected.

Randall

[Randall]

Oh, and Melissa's avatar looks downright scary (http://www.aota.net/forums/showthread.php?postid=140296#post140296) in FutureQuest-Bright. Run away! Run away!

Randall

[Melissa]

Oh, and Melissa's avatar looks downright scary (http://www.aota.net/forums/showthread.php?postid=140296#post140296) in FutureQuest-Bright. Run away! Run away!

RandallLOL! kewl ;) Halloween's coming and I'm early (for once).

[jimbo]

Important Update:All Old Blue viewers, as well as anyone who feels the purple background on the posts is too dark, are highly encouraged to migrate to "FutureQuest-Blue".
Support for Old Blue has officially expired as we noted it would. :rasberry:

This is uncool. I understand the reasoning behind it, but how much development time is really needed to "maintain" an additional style?

I've switched to the new blue style, but the purple and blue just is not appealing. Hopefully I'll get used to it. Or I could just use the archives to browse the forum ;).

-jim

[Deb]

This is uncool. I understand the reasoning behind it, but how much development time is really needed to "maintain" an additional style?Considering the amount of time spent answering questions about why one style looks this way and another looks that way, or why "this doesn't work" when someone else says "it does" and "how come I can't see holiday headers but they can" etc etc... I'd say enough time to not justify keeping an extremely old and outdated style alive for less than 10 people :wink: Old Blue really has been a headache that never seemed to comply very easily with any sort of upgrade and therefore was becoming more and more left behind with each one. You still have the same colors..the only difference now is that it has been brought up to date with the forums and the rest of the site :smile: I do agree that it takes some getting used to for those now seeing a bit of purple in their blue landscape but at least they wont have to wonder why a button disappeared anymore :P

I've switched to the new blue style, but the purple and blue just is not appealing. Hopefully I'll get used to it. Or I could just use the archives to browse the forum ;).-jim Every time there is an upgrade it takes some getting used to. I use, and have always used, the FutureQuest Default style and am still trying to get used to a few of the new features and how they work... Surfing the archives could be done I guess but they sure are complicated to respond to :dopey:

Deb
- The art of progress is to preserve order amid change and to preserve change amid order.

[dank]

I've got no problem with incorporating the Old Blue color scheme into the new layout and overall design. The purple colors were just too hard on my eyes for forum perusal, so the new option works just fine for me. Layout was never an issue.

Dan

[jimbo]

Is there any way to at least put the title of the last post/thread along with the most recent poster on the forumhome template?

[Joseph]

Is there any way to at least put the title of the last post/thread along with the most recent poster on the forumhome template?
The most recent poster & the time of the last post have always been on the main forumhome template. :smile:

The title of the last thread can be found by either hovering over the last post time, or by hovering over the actual forum name (ie: the last thread is located within the title tags for those links). :wink:

[Evoir]

Hi, I have not read through this entire thread, sorry if this is a repeat!

So, I noticed that this new version of VB shows all unread messages in the "New Posts", which is fine, because it seperates the actual New from the Unread. But, then I noticed that the new VB also leaves the icon lit up for Unread, when you arrive at the board, even if you don't want to read the darn messages. So, for example, tons on the main items *look* like they have new, unread messages in them, but they are actually *old* unread messages. Is there a way I can say *mark all posts as read after x days* or a button that could be moved to the top of the page, in the main nav, or a setting that can be changed?

(I see the link at the bottom of the page, but it used to work differently, and I miss the functionality)

Anyone else have a problem with this?

I use those lit up FQ icons as one way to determine if there is something actually *new* that I have not seen before. But, the way it is now, it is useless to me.

[Randall]

I use those lit up FQ icons as one way to determine if there is something actually *new* that I have not seen before. But, the way it is now, it is useless to me. Too bad there's no way to mark individual threads as "read" without actually clicking through them.

That would solve Evie's problem without trying to hack in some kind of exception to the DB-based "unread" tracking system, if that's even possible.

Randall

[Joseph]

I use those lit up FQ icons as one way to determine if there is something actually *new* that I have not seen before. But, the way it is now, it is useless to me.
I'm not sure how it could be "old" if you haven't read it. :rasberry:

It is possible to mark individual forums as read, if you don't want to mark the entire board as read. Simply click on the "Forum Tools" on the top right of the forum page, to get a dropdown that will include "Mark Forum as Read". :wink:

Additionally, at the end of your viewing period you can simply click "Mark All Forums as Read" in the footer and when you return the next time, it'll only show "new" content as unread. :smile:

Hopefully you'll be able to work with these tool to make your experience more pleasant. :yeah:

[Evoir]

You know, it just doesn't make sense to me as it is. There are a few different things going on.

There are NEW threads since my last visit. I want to know this at a glance. The way the system is set up now, almost all the lights are always lit up, and I must click on New Posts to discern which threads have new posts since my last visit. It used to work that each time I came back to the forum, the only lights that were ON were new posts since my last visit.

If I mark all posts as READ, it's not true, and it ruins the functionailty of the New Posts page, where it lists the new posts (since last visit) first, then Unread Posts after that. Basically, it would take away the cool feature of seeing the unread posts on that page. I can live with it, but I don't like it.

I often come by the forums and do a quick view and see if there are any NEW posts in the News & Announcements and Notices & Alerts before going onto to the New Posts page.

Regarding the "old" comment: If I have not read something, it is because I am generally not interested in it based on the title. But, now every time I come back, both of those forums (News & Announcements and Notices & Alerts) are lit up, every time. It's sorta like the boy who cried WOLF every time now.

Doesn't anyone else get bugged by this? Is this a setting that has been changed? if so, why did you change it? I can certainly work around whatever, but i don't understand if it is a purposeful change, and if so, why?

(like I said, I can use the 'mark forums as read" button, but it used to work differently, and I don't understand why it was changed...how it ghelps anyone)

[dank]

Doesn't anyone else get bugged by this?
I use the "New Posts" option almost exclusively and don't pay attention to the forum lights. The dual new/new display throws me off occasionally (mostly when there's nothing truly new, which makes the secondary display briefly confusing), but it works fine as far as I'm concerned and is potentially useful, I imagine.

Dan

[Snarpy]

Evie,

I actually find the new way more functional, for me. It used to be that if I stopped in but didn't read everything I was interested in, the "newness" was lost the next time I came back and I had to go to to "Posts in Last Day" so I wouldn't miss something. Now, it knows what I've read and what I haven't making my surfing more efficient. :yeah:

I'm confused about this:
If I mark all posts as READ, it's not true, and it ruins the functionailty of the New Posts page, where it lists the new posts (since last visit) first, then Unread Posts after that. Basically, it would take away the cool feature of seeing the unread posts on that page. I can live with it, but I don't like it.If you don't want to read something, why do you care whether it is marked read or not? By marking it READ, it doesn't light up, which seems like what you want.:umm:

[sheila]

I wonder if we need to clarify the order of the steps here.

When Evie visits the forums next, I suppose she will see lights on all of the forums, since she left without reading some messages and didn't mark the forums read. That may be somewhat annoying.

I would suggest she consider Dan's method (which I also use) and click on the "New Posts" link in the middle of the top menu bar. Then you can see, by sections, which posts were new today, and which were older posts that you never read. Yes, I know you don't like this, but just for today it will be like that.

Now read all the posts you are interested in.

Now before you leave, at the end of your reading session, mark all posts as read (there is a link at the bottom of every forum page down near the copyright notice and such forth). Next time you come back, you will only have lights on the forums where there are truly new posts.

If every time, after you finish reading, and before you leave, you mark all the posts read, it will work the way you want upon your next return.

No, you are not the only person who does not like the new way. This isn't something FutureQuest changed. It is the default behavior for the new version of vBulletin. Yes, it takes some getting used to, but I have found some usefullness in it, as Snarpy mentions.

OK, there's my nickle.

[Evoir]

Yes, I understand that I can do that, and I appreciate your post, Sheila.

I do like to see the Unread on the New Posts page. I read the New Posts page as sort fo the gossip column. I read it when I have the time, and usually, they are not topics that I would seek out, but, it is like standing aorund the water cooler. This is not where I want to see if one of the servers my clients are on is having trouble, or something like that. I want that FIRST.

I visit the forums most every day, to see if there is any new, really important server messages etc, and I find that it is like the boy who cried wolf, because the lights are all lit up... and it I mark all the forums read, I loose the functionality of the Unread (old) posts in the New Posts page. Whew!

It's ok. I'll adapt. I just wanted to make certain I was understood. I *think* I feel understood now. :)

[Snarpy]

I get it now, Evie.

Maybe you could subscribe to the News & Announcments and the Notices & Alerts forums, through the forum tools menu. Or, you could get server info via RSS at http://www.aota.net/feeds/news.xml

[Evoir]

Not bad ideas. I just miss the new since last visit lightbulbs on the main page. I basically have no reason to land on the forums homepage, now. Maybe I'll make the New Posts page my new bookmark and not visit the homepage.

Thanks for reading... :)

[Jeff]

Hi, I have not read through this entire thread, sorry if this is a repeat!

So, I noticed that this new version of VB shows all unread messages in the "New Posts", which is fine, because it seperates the actual New from the Unread. But, then I noticed that the new VB also leaves the icon lit up for Unread, when you arrive at the board, even if you don't want to read the darn messages. So, for example, tons on the main items *look* like they have new, unread messages in them, but they are actually *old* unread messages. Is there a way I can say *mark all posts as read after x days* or a button that could be moved to the top of the page, in the main nav, or a setting that can be changed?

(I see the link at the bottom of the page, but it used to work differently, and I miss the functionality)

Anyone else have a problem with this?

I use those lit up FQ icons as one way to determine if there is something actually *new* that I have not seen before. But, the way it is now, it is useless to me.

A couple of my forum members have complained about this very thing.

1.) With the old (cookie based) system which assumed you read (or scanned and decided not to read) everything each visit, members who got called away before making it through everything complained that there was now no way to see new from old.

2.) With the new (database) system which keeps the bulbs on for anything you haven't actually read, problem #1 is solved (you can now read a few, get some work done, and then come back and see what you haven't read) but those who systematically went through the new threads of the day now discover they have the additional work of marking each forum read... the "automatic" mark-as-read switch now is manual, and it's more clicking and more work.

I guess the ideal would be to have a double level graphic for the bulb icons, or else a user preference that could be set the way each member wants it, but I assume both would mean more overhead.

[Evoir]

IS there any way to add "Mark all Forums Read" to the top of the page? Perhaps as a drop down under "New Posts"?

Ok, I promise to not bug you all any more about this. :)

[sheila]

Wow, that was easy. Look, there it is under "Quick Links".

Providing you are not already in a particular forum, the "Quick Links" drop down at the top of the forums has a "Mark Forums Read" option.

:QTwand:

-- and for my next trick...

[Evoir]

Thanks! Was it there all the time? Or was it just put there? :confused:

[Joseph]

Thanks! Was it there all the time? Or was it just put there? :confused:

That's always been there - I think (though I'm not sure) that's actually part of the Default vB Skin as well. :smile:

[Joseph]

Just a quick update - we have now upgraded to vB3.5.1 :smile:

This upgrade did require some template updates - it is important to note that these updates have/will not be applied to Old Blue.

If you experience any errors due to this, we strongly recommend that you update your style selection to one of our supported styles (FutureQuest Default, FutureQuest-Blue, or FutureQuest-Bright).

vB3.5.1 is mainly a security & bug update, and has only a small amount of new features - of which most affect only the backend. :rasberry:

For a full list of changes both to the forum & templates - please reference the release topic at vBulletin.com (http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/showthread.php?t=161721).

You may now return to your regularly scheduled posting. :smile: