Toronto plane crash

[TVB]

Some of you may know that my GF is a flight attendant. She wasn't flying today but you can imagine my alarm when I found out was an incident in Toronto. My first concern was her whether this was her airline and thus, her co-workers.

Anyways, being with her has taught me much about how to get my butt out of an airplane if there is an incident and tonight I am quite proud of her colleagues at Air France. It wasn't two weeks ago we sat on my back deck and laughed about being being pushed out of an airplane on a slide in an emergency and what the likelihood would be of people trying to grab their stuff out of the overhead bins.

How often do all of us get on planes and not pay attention to where the exits are? How often do we grab an exit seat and think about actually opening it? Thank goodness, the folks in exit seats on this flight figured it out.

These people survived because of the controlled evacuation enviroment on the plane put immediately in place by the flight attendants.

And finally, if you ever see a flight attendant furiously tearing or cutting her stockings off or him pulling his socks off (as I bet these ones were doing as the plane was skidding), it's not because s/he is excited to be home. It's the very first thing they do when there is a problem.

[Wassercrats]

And finally, if you ever see a flight attendant furiously tearing or cutting her stockings off or him pulling his socks off (as I bet these ones were doing as the plane was skidding), it's not because s/he is excited to be home. It's the very first thing they do when there is a problem.Why?

[TVB]

Stockings and synthetic socks melt. Flight attendants with burning ankles or legs are not that helpful.

[Andilinks]

Flight attendants with burning ankles or legs are not that helpful.A good reason they should wear silk then, no? Somehow I don't see myself with the presence of mind to pull at stockings as a plane crashes.

This one went as though it were scripted, after all the good guys get off safely the plane blows up (on tape).

Andi

[Snarpy]

From the Toronto Star (http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1123019209340&call_pageid=968332188774&col=968350116467) Gwen Dunlop, a Toronto resident who was returning from a summer vacation in France, said she was unimpressed with the way the flight attendants managed the emergency.

"The staff did not seem helpful or prepared," Dunlop said. "At one point, someone blocked an exit to a chute."

What ensued was a mad scramble to get away from a plane that was rapidly becoming engulfed in flames and threatening to explode at any moment, she said.

"There was the fear of the explosion, because we were all trying to go up a hill that was all mud," Dunlop said.

"We had lost our shoes, we were just scrambling, and there were people with children. The rain was just coming down, and the wind and the lightning. We were just thrown into the weather and thrown into everything."

Dunlop said the evacuation was anything but orderly. "There were people climbing over seats to get out."If this is true, it is even more remarkable that things went so well.

Snarpy

[Wassercrats]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-5186072,00.html``Only seconds later, it started really moving and obviously it wasn't OK,'' said Dunlop. ``At some point the wing was off. The oxygen masks never came down; the plane was filling up with smoke.''

She said one of the flight attendants tried to calm passengers and tell them that everything was fine.

``One of the hostesses said, `You can calm down, it's OK,' and yet the plane was on fire and smoke was pouring in,'' Dunlop said. ``I don't like to criticize, but the staff did not seem helpful or prepared.''

[Snarpy]

Maybe Dunlop is adept at seeing things in a negative light and simply quick to criticize. Or maybe Dunlop likes being the center of attention.

Oxygen masks aren't supposed to come down in this kind of situation, anyway. They are for a loss of pressure. Actually, they would make a fire hazard.

Snarpy

[Snarpy]

From CNN (http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/americas/08/02/canada.passengers/index.html) Olivier Dubos told CNN there was no advance warning of a problem before the plane burst into flames.

The crew appeared as surprised as any of the passengers, he said.

"We were really scared, actually, when we started to roll in the ravine," Dubos said. "We could see some flames, and that was where we got really scared. We couldn't do anything. We were sitting in our seats. We didn't know if the plane would just blow up."

He said the flight attendants responded "very efficiently" and pushed people to hit the slides "as fast as possible."So were they efficient or unprepared? Is the glass half full or half empty?

Snarpy

[Andilinks]

So were they efficient or unprepared? Is the glass half full or half empty? I suspect that it was both efficient AND chaotic changing from the various viewpoints and times during this very complex event. I think even in the best of circumstances a plane crash must be a mostly "empty glass."

Each participant/witness will have their own unique experience and predisposition to draw upon. Besides, eyewitness reports in general are notoriously uneven and often biased.

Andi

[Mandi]

As a military flight surgeon, my husband has been through a lot of "flight training" . . . which, as far as I can see, is mostly "crash training." They go through "dunker training" (how to get out of an upside down, closed, submerged helicopter) and more. Even though his role is not specifically flight oriented (he's expected to have medical duties - a sick medivac patient - if he's along at all) he still had to learn all of the basic routines "just in case." They train in all kinds of weather, at all altitudes, and simulate every single kind of malfunction they can think of, and often do it without announcing what's going on.

The idea that one would or wouldn't have the presence of mind to do something lifesaving (particularly because it means the flight attendants are then free to do more lifesaving action) is precisely the point to the training. You don't WANT to rely on presence of mind, you want your crew to rely on their training. It should be so ingrained that it is rote, automatic. It would seem for commercial flight attendants, that starts with stripping off dangerous pantyhose. That training is what saved the fliers yesterday, not any special presence of mind they may or may not have had.

That helicopter the CG lost (www.cnn.com/2004/US/12/09/copter.crash/) last December was one my husband had flown in . . . in the area it was lost, and in the same hellacious stormy conditions. Betsy, I can completely understand your feelings of "this is awfully close to home." All of the Coasties in the sunk helicopter made it out alive, and in decent shape (minor injuries on a couple.) The civilian they had been attempting to rescue did *not* make it out of the helicopter. A very, very somber way to underscore the fact that training is what makes the difference in a crash.

[TVB]

you want your crew to rely on their training. It should be so ingrained that it is rote, automatic.



And it's why once a year they have to go to refresher training. I have no doubt that there would have been worse chaos had flight personnel been as negligent as Dunlop intoned in her initial interviews--in fact, it was because they stayed calm and did their jobs that she and others lived.

Todays interviews and cell phone pics prove that point. People were trying to grab their belongings and we all know how long it takes to deplane when at the gate during that process. If you've ever been in even a minor fender bender, you probably can recall how you just sat there for a minute or two recovering from the fact it happened. However, some of those interviews also indicate that the chutes didn't deploy as they should which should be a concern. Hearing GF's stories about training evacuations on a chute is downright scary, particularly the ones from the planes that have a second passenger level in the front.

GF is still quite amazed everyone survived after seeing the pics.

People were cheering when the plane initially landed which gives a good indication how everything went wrong so quickly.


Betsy, I can completely understand your feelings of "this is awfully close to home."


No kidding. This is the first major incident since we have been together and it was frightening for a time. She doesn't fly AF, but rather one of the domestic airlines but even still...it always crosses my mind everytime she is working.

[Mandi]

She doesn't fly AF, but rather one of the domestic airlines but even still...it always crosses my mind everytime she is working.
I don't think that ever goes away. I hold my breath every single time Jon rings me for a hurried chat, that he's about to take off for {wherever} to pluck someone sick off their otherwise inaccessible spot. I never do it otherwise, but I always find my jaw is sore afterwards: I unconciously clench my jaw until he lets me know he's home. I also try hard to keep a mellow tone for the kids's sake.

In two weeks, we'll be counting backwards from 365 to his 20 year mark, and I'll meet that with a big sigh of relief . . . except that he's talking about getting his own pilot's license and doing rural medicine in Alaska after CG retirement :rolleyes:. Not exactly a step down in the Spousal Stress Inducing department, ya know?