how to fit hd in cdrom bay?

[krisleech]

im trying to fit a second hard drive in my pc the only space left is a cdrom bay. I guess i need some kind of adapter or kit to mount the hardrive, but what is it called. Ive been googleing with no luck so far. If i knew what i was looking for it would help!

Cheers K.

[Kevin]

I have lots of them:
http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=10243652&loc=101&sp=1

Most of mine are from Maxtor though as some of the retail drive kits came with them.

[Jeff]

You can get the 3.5 -> 5.5" drive rails for $2 here:
http://www.hypermicro.com/product.asp?pf_id=ACHM101

(Wouldn't buy cables from them though as the failure rate on cables from hypermicro has been strangely high - their drives things and things like brackets have been rock solid for me though.)

You can also get 3-drive-in-2-5.5"-bay and 4-drive-in-3 -bay drive enclosures when things really get tight.

[Kevin]

I am sure there are plenty of cheaper sources around. I just grabbed the first link I found.

I prefer to buy nice big cases. This is the one I got the last 2 times I needed a case: http://usa.aopen.com/products/housing/H700series.htm Of course I tend to put so many drives into my boxes that I still end up using the 5.25" brackets :P

[Mandi]

I'm chuckling that the case specs Kevin links to actually include that it will fit a microATX board. Um, yeah. Plus seven or eight of its friends :P.

Oooh, sorry kiddo. Too bad we can't cram anything else inside your microATX case there . . . guess we'll have to spend that windfall on Mom's machine . . . :yeah:

[Kevin]

I'm chuckling that the case specs Kevin links to actually include that it will fit a microATX board. Um, yeah. Plus seven or eight of its friends :P.

Oooh, sorry kiddo. Too bad we can't cram anything else inside your microATX case there . . . guess we'll have to spend that windfall on Mom's machine . . . :yeah:
The space for the motherboard actually looks about the same as it does in the little tiny cases. You just don't have to reach around drive bays or power supplies or anything else. Also, the motherboard is on a sled that I can pull out. All of my cases are either that or the older HX08 which is also a full size tower. I have actually swapped motherboards between systems by simply pulling out that tray and swapping them.

With the big case I get:
Lots of space to work
Lots of space for extra cooling and less space for cables to get in the way of the air flow
and of course LOTS of space for drives.

My server currently has 6 hard drives in it. My desktop has 5 hard drives and 2 CD drives. I tend to store way too much stuff and therefore I need lots of places to put many hard drives ;)

Many of those drives are actually in 5.25" brackets. On my sever and desktop boxes I put 4 of the drives in the CDROM bays and then stuck a 120mm fan in front of them for even better cooling. Here is a picture of my desktop box that shows it: http://www.sanitarium.net/stuff/pics/getpic.cgi?2595 That picture was taken while I was moving data around and temporarily had 2 extra drives connected for a total of 7. I had the 2 temporary drives sitting on an old SCSI enclosure which was also supplying them with power.

[Randall]

On my sever and desktop boxes I put 4 of the drives in the CDROM bays and then stuck a 120mm fan in front of them for even better cooling. Here is a picture of my desktop box that shows it: Fan needs dusting.

Randall

[Mandi]

Ooooohhhh . . . . ahhhhhh . . . . . (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16835118111) (yeah, right . . . in my dreams . . .!! )

. . . but you get the gold medal for Clever Placement of Fans :kewl: ! I don't think I could get away with that in practice myself, too many curious fingers and (also curious) wet dog noses around here.

[Kevin]

Fan needs dusting.

Randall
Yeah, I keep forgetting to buy more cans of air.

There is nothing that screws up my allergies worse than the dust from computers. I was really messed up that night from opening the box with all that dust in it.

It seems strange to me that dust can actually build up on a spinning fan. You would think that the fan would be clean but it never is :(

[Kevin]

Ooooohhhh . . . . ahhhhhh . . . . . (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16835118111) (yeah, right . . . in my dreams . . .!! )

. . . but you get the gold medal for Clever Placement of Fans :kewl: ! I don't think I could get away with that in practice myself, too many curious fingers and (also curious) wet dog noses around here.
I originally had that fan completely open but then I got a dog. He suck his nose into the fan one day. Even though I don't think he would ever repeat that mistake I went ahead and ordered grills for both of my 120mm fans.

The fan is actually mounted with zip ties. I wrapped them around behind the 5.25" drive brackets.

[Randall]

It seems strange to me that dust can actually build up on a spinning fan. You would think that the fan would be clean but it never is What I can't figure out is why some computers that haven't been opened in five years are spottlessly clean, whereas I couldn't keep the dust out of mine with a battalion of riot police.

Randall

[Kevin]

What I can't figure out is why some computers that haven't been opened in five years are spottlessly clean, whereas I couldn't keep the dust out of mine with a battalion of riot police.

Randall
A clean computer that hasn't been opened for 5 years? That would be possible in a data center with a really good air conditioning system but not in a home system.

There used to be a few companies that actually put filters in the cooling fans but after a while the filter would get dirty and the computer would start to heat up so I haven't seen that "feature" in several years now.

[Randall]

A clean computer that hasn't been opened for 5 years? That would be possible in a data center with a really good air conditioning system but not in a home system. Most of them were office PCs, but we're not talking about climate-controlled buildings, either. Can't explain it. :dunno:

Randall

[Kevin]

Most of them were office PCs, but we're not talking about climate-controlled buildings, either. Can't explain it. :dunno:

Randall
Every office building I have worked in has had computers that were even dirtier than my home computers. The computer room at FutureQuest tends to keep the servers very clean on the inside but that is probably only because there isn't normally anyone in there making dust.

[Randall]

The computer room at FutureQuest tends to keep the servers very clean on the inside but that is probably only because there isn't normally anyone in there making dust. That's because the turtles are in there cleaning up when everybody's gone. :winky:

Randall

[Mandi]

And speaking of microATX (I was, check the last page) - did you know that they come in DIFFERENT SIZES? What the hell is the point of having a standardized form factor, if they go and make them in different sizes anyway.

Am now the proud owner of a new case, too.

[Wassercrats]

I've been known to take a shot at fixing something before I give an expert a chance, and I usually clean it. It just happened recently with a bathroom light fixture. I bet nobody dusts on top of those.

[Kevin]

I just got back from running some errands. One of them was to pick up a can of compressed air so I can clean out my server tonight when I replace a 74GB SCSI drive with a 160GB IDE drive. The 74GB SCSI drive will then replace the 36GB SCSI drive in my Windows box which is starting to show signs of failure :\

I was also going to replace the 2x36GB SCSI RAID0 in my server with the other 160GB IDE drive that used to be in my backup server but it seems to have died since I pulled it last week :(

[Kevin]

And here is what my server looks like with the 2 extra drives connected and the case still full of dust:
http://www.sanitarium.net/stuff/pics/getpic.cgi?2598
http://www.sanitarium.net/stuff/pics/getpic.cgi?2599

That is the older Aopen HX08 model case which isn't quite as big as my newer cases.

[Mandi]

Kevin, do you have RAID capable boards, or are you using adapaters? I'd love your input on those (RAID cards.)

I have a very basic RAID question I can't seem to find anywhere, which tells me it's a baisc assumption I should be able to make myself, but oh well - is it necessary for both drives (in a RAID 0 or RAID 1 setup) to be matched capacities?

[Kevin]

Kevin, do you have RAID capable boards, or are you using adapaters? I'd love your input on those (RAID cards.)

I have a very basic RAID question I can't seem to find anywhere, which tells me it's a baisc assumption I should be able to make myself, but oh well - is it necessary for both drives (in a RAID 0 or RAID 1 setup) to be matched capacities?
I have gone cheap on RAID since these are home systems. I mainly use software RAID but I do have a pair of 3Ware cards. I have an old 3Ware 6200 2-port which runs the 600GB hardware RAID-0 in my backup server. My desktop box has a 3Ware 6400 4-port card that has a 600GB RAID-5 on it but that is actually software RAID because the 6xxx series 3Ware cards do a really bad job on RAID-5 (the cards weren't intended to do it at all but they added it in a firmware patch to compete with others). I just use the 3Ware there because it gives me 4 IDE ports on 1 card. I also have my home directory setup as a RAID-1 but that is software RAID on SCSI drives.

If you want to do RAID-0 on IDE drives then you can probably get by with an old 3Ware card from eBay like I did. Just make sure you upgrade the firmware to support drives >134GB.

If you want to do RAID-1 on IDE then I would suggest at least a 7xxx series 3Ware card because the 6xxx series isn't completely compatible with the newer Linux kernels and you can't tell when it is degraded.

If you want to do RAID-5 on IDE then Areca controllers seem to be the best you can get. I haven't actually tried one but everything I have read says it smokes even the newest 3Ware cards.

If you plan to run any level of RAID on SCSI drives then you can usually get by with software RAID. In my experience the only reason to go to hardware SCSI RAID is if you want to do RAID-5 and want to offload the parity calculations.

I do not recommend the use of the IDE RAID controllers that are built into many modern motherboards. They are usually just software RAID in disguise with a BIOS that has just enough RAID support to be able to boot from the array. I would rather use the software RAID that is built into Linux.

Of course the standard warnings of master/slave apply to IDE RAID. I definately recommend that each IDE drive gets its own port on the controller. You should NEVER have a master and slave in the same RAID array no matter what level.

I have a list of all my running hardware here: http://www.sanitarium.net/cgi-bin/about.cgi
The data is actually pulled from my hardware inventory system so it updates the page whenever I change something (like the IDE drive that is now on asylum instead of psychosis) ;)

[Randall]

And here is what my server looks like with the 2 extra drives connected and the case still full of dust: Looks cleaner than the PC in the other picture. But that crazed mass of drive cables has got the rest of us beat, methinks. I just use the 3Ware there because it gives me 4 IDE ports on 1 card. And I can see why you would need them. What the hell is the point of having a standardized form factor, if they go and make them in different sizes anyway. Maybe the standard only sets a maximum size -- meaning that you could make smaller one as long as it mounts properly.

I think Kevin needs one of these:

http://www.pcguide.com/ref/case/formWTX-c.html

Randall

# Most I ever had was five drives. Well, maybe six

[Kevin]

Looks cleaner than the PC in the other picture. But that crazed mass of drive cables has got the rest of us beat, methinks. And I can see why you would need them. Maybe the standard only sets a maximum size -- meaning that you could make smaller one as long as it mounts properly.
I think the standard just specifies where the screw holes and ports are. Other than that the shapes and the placement of the parts varies all over the place.

I think Kevin needs one of these:
http://www.pcguide.com/ref/case/formWTX-c.html
I have considered a big case like that but I can get all I need into my full tower cases and I have a somewhat normal sized floorprint which is much more important to me than the height.

[Mandi]

I really like the idea of being able to park a few hard drives above the power supply like that - and therefore, give them some easy dedicated cooling. That darned front panel always interferes with efficient front-of-the-case HDD cooling attempts, not that it isn't still worth making some effort.

[Mandi]

I think Kevin needs one of these:

http://www.pcguide.com/ref/case/formWTX-c.html

<--{{Hypervenilates a little, fans self, and double checks TOS to make sure such titillating links are allowed . . . }} :clapper: :vday2:

[Randall]

Obviously, Mandi has more available floor space. :rasberry:

Randall

[Kevin]

I really like the idea of being able to park a few hard drives above the power supply like that - and therefore, give them some easy dedicated cooling. That darned front panel always interferes with efficient front-of-the-case HDD cooling attempts, not that it isn't still worth making some effort.
Those 3.5" bays at the top of the case are also very easy to work on. There are 2 screws in the top and then the whole thing slides out of the top so you can install drives outside of the case. The only thing I didn't like about the old HX08 case was that the floppy drive was at the very top and it is hard to find floppy drive cables that are long enough to reach but the newer H700 series fixes that by putting the floppy bay in the middle.

[PaulKroll]

I do not recommend the use of the IDE RAID controllers that are built into many modern motherboards. They are usually just software RAID in disguise with a BIOS that has just enough RAID support to be able to boot from the array. I would rather use the software RAID that is built into Linux.
Which is fine, if you're running Linux. :)

I've mentioned the ASUS A8N-SLI, I think, and I've had good luck with the Nvidia RAID controller within. Mind, that board has two controllers, the Silicon Image controller being able to do RAID 5... but only really slowly. (I.e., it's not only software RAID, it's BAD software RAID...) The Nvidia's RAID 0+1 (four drives in this case) is quick, and comforting. (Sort of comforting: I went through two bad drives in the process of getting this bad boy together. All SATA Maxtors. Hadn't seen any bad new Maxtors in a long time, but one definitely had trouble out of the box, and the other didn't even report itself as the same drive as the outside case label. Which woudn't be so bad if it worked AT ALL, but it didn't.)

Mind, my case needed a couple extra fans with all those little jet engines in there. :)

[Kevin]

Which is fine, if you're running Linux. :)
If I had to do RAID in Windows I would probably get a 3Ware card for it. I did use a 3Ware card in Windows98 once just for the heck of it so I know they are supported and work fine. The only integrated RAID I have tried myself was a HighPoint one on a Tyan motherboard. The performance was significantly worse than the software RAID in Linux so that didn't last long.

I have also used software RAID in OpenBSD and in Solaris. I did software RAID-0 on an OpenBSD box a long time ago. It was kind of ugly but that was with the old ccd driver not the newer RAIDframe driver which is supposed to be much nicer. In the Solaris world I have used both the expensive Veritas product and the "Disk Suite" product that comes with Solaris. I actually liked the one that came with Solaris better. I have a software RAID-5 setup on my old SPARC box right now. That was my first disk based backup server but I quickly outgrew it and it was pretty slow running on dual 60MHz processors.

[TVB]

The distribution servers where I work each have their own dedicated AC vents blowing into their personal space.

In the summer, they stick in extra dehumidifiers for the humidity which require a regular emptying (the ac units are central AC from the building)

Each box (there are 6) has seven drives which is 1 for each day of the week and each are serving broadcast quality video and live video with about a two second delay, if desired. I bring the video into the building using mostly analogue formats and from there it goes to a local server to get digitized and then immediately to the distribution servers if live using a predetermined router position.

Each server pair is dedicated to each of our three clients for redundancy. Each has basic cd rom drives and even 3.5 floppies for rebooting if necessary. I don't recall if they are windows based (I think they are) or unix. Video and audio cards are there as well for diagnosing purposes--plug in a monitor and headset method.

I'll try and remember to snap a picture or two over the summer when I am up there in the server room dumping the water buckets.

The wires behind the machines are a different story. I'm rather amazed they can figure out which one is which but somehow the guys that do it know it. Either that, or they don't which would explain the knots. It's kind of scary in a way.

It's not a home system obviously but I remember the first time I saw them, I was thinking holy **** just from realizing the amount of data that was going out at any given moment.

[Mandi]

Obviously, Mandi has more available floor space. :rasberry:
Indeed, only the under-18 and unemployed in this house deal with space issues and the resulting micro-ATX setup. It is not a coincidence that the child who prefers this setup is also a packrat and the kid who has a nice regular mid tower, full ATX, is NOT a packrat. Go figure. We all fill our available space with whatever is important to us, I guess.

Packrat Girl is an ar-TISTE, and it shows in the clutter around her . . . she is only technically inclined so far as I make her participate in her computer care (read: homeschool computer science is core curriculum here.) She keeps the system running really well without assistance, though (regular spyware sweeps, defrag, virus-savvy) - so I'm proud of her for that, since it eludes many of my full grown clientele. She's producing some neat digital art these days, too - she got a Wacom Graphire tablet for her birthday :yeah:

Betsy, I'd love to see those pics! I'm giggling about the highly advanced array, and the hand-bailing of the dehumidfiers though LOL! All that gear, and they couldn't buy a pump and some tubing to drain the drip pans?

[Randall]

I'll try and remember to snap a picture or two over the summer when I am up there in the server room dumping the water buckets. That's showbiz for you, eh? :rasberry: It is not a coincidence that the child who prefers this setup is also a packrat and the kid who has a nice regular mid tower, full ATX, is NOT a packrat. Maybe that explains why I've been eying a Mac Mini. :ytthink:

Randall

[TVB]

All that gear, and they couldn't buy a pump and some tubing to drain the drip pans?

They'd likely need their own radiator systems as it's up on the 8th floor of a building that was not designed for wires beyond phone and electric. It's kind of amazing the server rooms seemingly pop up overnig--this in a building that has some ancient bathrooms. We have the oldest building of the 4 networks, but heck, you could fly a small airplane into it and it likely wouldn't even shutter.

That's showbiz for you, eh? :rasberry:

What's the frequency, Randall?

Betsy

[Randall]

What's the frequency, Randall? You can't scare me. :ras1: Besides, Wasser is the one who hears voices.

Randall