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View Full Version : [FQuest Notice] Disabling SCBL Activating SBL Globally


Deb
01-27-2005, 12:44 PM
:blowhorn: May as well go back to this thread http://aota.net/forums/showthread.php?t=18735 as it is still the most accurate for current events.



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We are shying away from lists that block and unblock quickly based on what's happening "in the moment" vs the lists that are strong in what they do taking hold of the hard core spammers and spam houses sternly while not spending too much time with the "ooops our user made a mistake" network blocks.

What FutureQuest is leaning toward.... and will likely replace the SCBL with today to see how it goes is the SpamHaus (SBL)

Reference for an easy to read overview of how it works:
http://www.spamhaus.org/sbl/sbl-rationale.html

The Spamhaus Block List ("SBL") is a database of IP addresses of direct spam sources; spammers, spam gangs and spam support services (but not open proxies or open relays), queriable in realtime by mail systems throughout the Internet for the purpose of refusing mail from known spam senders.

E.g. they are not worried about mistakes and are not penalizing the "new sysadmin" who has an open relay.... that guy will learn how to fix his system by the others who do care and as long as he's not spamming spamhaus doesn't worry about it. This isn't to say that FutureQuest wouldn't tack on a solid open-relay blacklist in addition to SBL.... that's still under discussion. Just note that SBL doesn't do it.

Also reference the Spamhaus DNSBL Data Feed Service
http://www.spamhaus.org/datafeed/index.html

"A Data Feed eliminates latency problems for large mail servers and very significantly speeds email filtering up, and enables more in-depth checks to be made on incoming mail (such as also checking IPs of URLs in messages against the SBL, in addition to the connecting IPs).

The Data Feed service has strong advantages [for FutureQuest] over the traditional scheme based on DNS queries over the public DNS infrastructure: 1) it is still based on DNS queries, so there is little difference (if any) in the mail servers configuration; 2) all DNS queries are local, so the turnaround time is short and entirely under your [FutureQuest's not per individual client] control; this means shorter transit times for messages; 3) as far as DNSBL checks are concerned, the mail flow will not be affected by any problem on the network or on the Spamhaus servers; 4) the service comes with a Service Agreement contract." [between Spamhaus and FutureQuest]

It also costs a few thousand dollars a year but I feel it would be more than worth it to:
a) further support them;
b) ensure we are able to use it at its fullest potential w/o adding to the list of "things that could go wrong"; and
c) get this problem on the to-done list as quickly and efficiently as possible :wink:

For "those in the know", if you have a problem with Spamhaus let us know your reasons.....

In the meantime, just be aware that we plan to begin testing this out today.

Deb
- Working through it one message at a time

Deb
01-27-2005, 01:06 PM
In the meantime, just be aware that we plan to begin testing this out today. And this has now begun.

The SCBL (SpamCop blacklist) is off

The SBL (Spamhaus blacklist) is now on

Deb
- :confuz:

gtc
01-27-2005, 01:45 PM
After reading through the Spamhaus material, this seems like a reasonable compromise. It'll be interesting to see what the statistics are. Thanks for taking an active response to these vermin.

Spammers ho! Engage the enemy!

Armand
01-27-2005, 02:27 PM
So does that hint towards getting a permanent blacklist solution?

DogAndPony
01-27-2005, 02:29 PM
You have my "yea" vote, Deb!

Spamhaus is a reliable, non-draconian, non-reactionary, big-picture-grokking source of information.

IMO, a good choice!

...Bob

Bob West

Josh
01-27-2005, 02:41 PM
I don't know much about Spamhaus, but if decreases the amount of spam, go for it. Do whatever it takes to get rid of that spam. :yeah:

Deb
01-27-2005, 02:47 PM
This failed miserably and immediately. We tried adding an open relay block to the SBL but it wasn't enough. The results were dismal at best.

Unfortunately it appears a list such as SBL is not going to snag the problems of broken scripts such as the recent MT blunder.

FutureQuest is back on SCBL at this time. It may be what we stick with.... we are still evaluating.

Here's a graph for your viewing pleasure. You should be able to easily see when the switch to SBL went into place and then when SCBL was put back in.

http://www.aota.net/4F/SCBL2SBL2SCBL.gif

Everything is fine (SCBL) then we switch to SBL and it's very NOT FINE and now we have switched back to SCBL and things are going back to normal.

So does that hint towards getting a permanent blacklist solution?
With the number of issues on the net allowing "mail bombs of spam" to be sent to everyone... resulting in basically DDoS attacks against mail servers.... _currently_ I see no other option. We can't afford enough servers to handle all of that spam..the more we add the more spam we'll deliver... e.g. we wouldn't be adding hardware for your email... it'd just be to handle your spam :(

:blowhorn: May as well go back to this thread http://aota.net/forums/showthread.php?t=18735 as it is still the most accurate for current events.

Deb
- We came, we tried, they won! :dunno:

cindik
01-27-2005, 02:54 PM
:blowhorn: May as well go back to this thread http://aota.net/forums/showthread.php?t=18749 as it is still the most accurate for current events.

HELP! I'm LOOPING! :ROFL:

Deb
01-27-2005, 02:54 PM
HELP! I'm LOOPING! :ROFL:
ROFL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I was feeling the same way trying to post that! :rasberry:

Deb
01-27-2005, 02:57 PM
and fixed..... ?i think? :P

I'm going to sticky the "active list" in this forum fwiw.

Armand
01-27-2005, 03:02 PM
_currently_ I see no other option.

Works for me. Anything at this point that results in less spam is good in my book (well except policies like AOL's). LOL I was just being curious. That's all. :)

cindik
01-27-2005, 03:13 PM
and fixed..... ?i think? :P

I'm going to sticky the "active list" in this forum fwiw.

ew.

sticky spam. :yukk:

DogAndPony
01-27-2005, 03:15 PM
<deja-vu mode>

You have my "yea" vote, Deb!

While Spamhaus is a reliable, non-draconian, non-reactionary, big-picture-grokking source of information... the SCBL is obviously the way to go at the moment!

IMO, a good choice!

...Bob

Bob West

</deja-vu mode>

ubu
01-27-2005, 04:40 PM
How bad does one have to be to be on this list, The Spamhaus Block List?

Jamie

Deb
01-27-2005, 04:41 PM
The Spamhaus Block List? bad enough to ensure there is absolutely no question about whether or not you're good :P

With other lists... a good host can go bad because of a bad client...when bad client is removed host can then become good again.

SBL = you're bad.... just bad... nuttin but bad...bad to the bone..... maybe you'll be reformed but right now and probably forever you're just bad :P

gtc
01-27-2005, 04:43 PM
How bad does one have to be to be on this list, The Spamhaus Block List?

Jamie

Pretty bad, according to their site. Booted from three different ISP's and you're out! Apparently they aim to target the worst of the worst in established spammers, and don't look to unsecured relays and the like.

ubu
01-27-2005, 05:02 PM
Thanks for the information.. I found a shocking bit of news today while looking over their "top 200 list"

I am a Independent Rep for a company called PrePaid Legal. I have been a member of their services for a long time and I use the service so just over the last few months started selling it myself to supplement my company.

Well they have a strict NO SPAM policy and so they should, they are a NYSE company, so they try to do everything right. I ran across a name on the list, and they show previous emails sent out by these spammers, and wouldn't you know it he has been pushing PrePaid Legal through email.

I guess I was shocked to see it there, so that is why I asked how bad do you have to be...

Now, I wonder if Prepaid Legal knows about it? It was a few years ago, so I am not even sure if he is still in Prepaid Legal or not.. They will terminate your account if and when they find out about anything like that..

Jamie
Shocked to see what people will do... :shock:

Randall
01-27-2005, 05:37 PM
Cindi was loopy, and now she's sticky? I'm confused... Well they have a strict NO SPAM policy and so they should, they are a NYSE company, so they try to do everything right. I ran across a name on the list, and they show previous emails sent out by these spammers, and wouldn't you know it he has been pushing PrePaid Legal through email. A lot of legit companies can find themselves in that position -- affiliate spam (http://www.rakemag.com/features/detail.asp?catID=46&itemID=15316&pg=2) is a big part of the problem. bad enough to ensure there is absolutely no question about whether or not you're good Obviously there's a lot of people in the gray area in between, or else we wouldn't be back on SCBL. :hrmm:

Randall