[FQuest Notice] ezMLM subdomain name change [mlm -> lists]

[Deb]

When: November 18th, 2003
Window: 2:50am - 6:00am EST
Duration: 5 - 60 minutes

There have been numerous requests to change the existing ezMLM subdomain name to something other than 'mlm' due to increased spam filters that may discredit email containing the word 'mlm'. The change will now be completed.

The new MX Record for the ezMLM subdomain name is being changed:
From: 'mlm.example.org'
To: 'lists.example.org'
Note: This has not added a DS-IR lists.example.org to each package. FutureQuest has simply added a MX record for lists.example.org to be used for ezMLM purposes only.

Every domain has had the new 'lists.' MX Record added within the FutureQuest DNS for over two weeks now. This was done to ensure it has had plenty of time to mitigate any propagation issues.

The ezMLM software itself and the CNC has been modified to work with this new subdomain.

The 'mlm' name will also continue to work to ensure existing lists are not affected by this change. New lists should be created using the 'lists' format (which the CNC will do automatically), however, if you require the use of the 'mlm' name, by all means, it will still function as desired.

Hopefully this will squelch the fears of mailing lists being unfairly denied due to the old 'mlm.' subdomain name ;)

Deb
- So many name changes for the mind to digest

[Bradley]

w00t! Not as this applies to me but I am sure there will be many a person happy with this change!

[Terra]

I would also like to point out this will be a retroactive change, meaning that all existing ezMLM lists will be converted to the new 'lists.example.org' format...

In a nutshell, 'mlm.example.org' is being phased out rather quickly as this will minimize any delivery problems...

--
Terra
sysAdmin
FutureQuest

[Evoir]

how quickly? I have quite a few accounts that need to change now. I am happy about the change, but it will take quite a bit of work to update very account, for sure. Can you give us a firm time-frame?

[Terra]

Evoir, I am not sure I understand your question... :(

The change and retrofitting will happen during tonight's maintenance window, there are technically no changes you will need to make unless you have customized your lists...

The following list files will be changed within everyones ezMLM list directory:
HOME/listname/inhost
HOME/listname/outhost
HOME/listname/mailinglist
HOME/listname/text/bottom
HOME/listname/text/bounce-num
HOME/listname/text/top

If you have modified other files within the ezMLM list directory tree, then yes, you will need to manually update them...

--
Terra
sysAdmin
FutureQuest

[Terra]

To clarify, we will still accept deliveries for any 'mlm.' email, as these changes are backwards compatible... My statement of phasing out, only meant that we are going ahead and making the change retroactive across all accounts, instead of having a pile of old 'mlm.' lists and only new lists would be created with the 'lists.' subdomain...

--
Terra
sysAdmin
FutureQuest

[TVB]

For some reason, I'm overcome by a particularly dense force field here. On our existing lists, should they be changed to lists.example.org? I realize the spam filter issue is reason enough to change them but must it be done? If I change them to lists.example.org, will an (un)subscribe sent to mlm.example.org still work?

Betsy:QThuh:

[Evoir]

hehe. Yeah, I'm still confused. Can we just leave the lists the way they were, if we choose to?

[PaulKroll]

The party of the first part, persuant to the party of the second part, parts company with the first part of party of the first, which is the second party to part company with the party of the second part. Partly.

But I think the answer is yes. :)
Edit- Yes, commands to mlm.domain will still work, not Yes, we can leave some domains to remain only mlm. (that, I dunno, but I doubt it strongly...)

[sheila]

Originally posted by Evoir:
hehe. Yeah, I'm still confused. Can we just leave the lists the way they were, if we choose to? Evie, we do recommend that you update your files and web site to reflect the new lists.example.com domain for mailing lists, rather than the mlm.example.com domain.

While the mlm.example.com will continue to work for the forseable future, all ezMLM emails will be sent as coming from lists.example.com and it may become confusing to the recipients to see mlm.example.com in some of your files or on your web site, and see lists.example.com elsewhere.

[Squirrel]

Well that is a most welcome change. The only problem is that "lists" is just as bad as "mlm". All good spam filters knock out anything with "list" or "lists" in it.
May I suggest the word "register"

[sheila]

Originally posted by Squirrel:
Well that is a most welcome change. The only problem is that "lists" is just as bad as "mlm". All good spam filters knock out anything with "list" or "lists" in it.
May I suggest the word "register" FutureQuest is not aware of any widely used spam filtering software that assumes the "lists" subdomain should be flagged as indicative of spam. For example, SpamAssassin does not do this.

If you have specific information about something of this nature, please let us know. Otherwise, we know of no reason not to go ahead and use the lists subdomain.

[TVB]

My two cents: "register" would be a horrible idea because it likely would confuse those who are unsubbing.

Betsy

[Squirrel]

Many spammers use the word list in their email adress. In my own filters the incidence is big. I use Spamkiller and Promasoft back to back and it's set to delete anything with "list" as a substring in the senders email address.

Statistically between them they deleted "list" 303 times and "MLM" 28 times
in the last 2 months.

What about "data" or "record" or "file" instead of "register"? Certainly "lists" plural is better than "list" singular and "lists" is better than "MLM"

[dank]

"news"?

"list" seems most universally recognized...

Dan

[Terra]

The new CNC release has been put into place, as well as all existing ezMLM lists have been retrofitted across all servers...

Our initial post processing testing has proved positive and hopefully this will be a clean cutover to the new name...

--
Terra
sysAdmin
FutureQuest

[tedloh]

A belated thank you for making this change. :noddy: I haven't done any new testing so I don't know what will happen with "lists" - hopefully no new problems will crop up.

[TimT]

Can someone make this simple for me? What do I need to do to update my mailing list? Can I just start sending to listname@list.mydomain.com?

Thanks
Tim

[Bruce]

You should need to do nothing to update your mailing list if you have not modified it by means other than through the CNC. You can simply start sending to listname@lists.domain.com (instead of listname@mlm.domain.com). However, you will want to change any email links you have posted on your web site(s) to match, and if you have made custom modifications to the text files within the list you may need to fix them up yourself. Care was taken to rewrite the important files, but the automated process may have missed custom modifications (if you have made any).

[Armand]

Will web subscribe/unsubscribe forms for mailing lists still work with the mlm prefix? Think I've got most of mine updated, but just in case missed one here or there was curious.

[Bruce]

Yes, subscriptions (sent from the web or otherwise) may be sent to either address. The responses will come from the "lists" subdomain, and replies to those responses will be directed there as well.

[Armand]

Cool... works for me.

Personally... think the news. prefix suggestion might have been better. But we shall see I suppose how the lists one goes. Just glad the mlm is becoming history though.

[kitchin]

The prefix "news." strikes me as odd, but for an obscure reason. Once I typed BBC News's web page address into that text-based web browser Lynx. I left out the http:// part of the address, as usual. Guess where news.bbc.co.uk went? It went looking for the Usenet newsgroup server news://news.bbc.co.uk, which does not exist. So I had to go back and type in the http:// part of the address.

Of course, that would not conflict with an email (mx) domain record. But it still bugs me.

:QTcar: (sorry for driving off-topic)

[chernove]

I have five different lists in play for various groups (3 for classes I teach, and 2 for international scholars). I sent an email to the scholarly lists informing them of the updated list address. The emails went through without a hitch. However, in sending an email to my classes, the email was NEVER RECEIVED! I sent to BOTH "lists" and the old "mlm" and neither went through. The only difference in set-up for the lists is that the lists my classes use aren't aren't archive and users can't (un)subscribe.

So . . . now what?

Also, on a slightly different note, did FQ send out an email announcing this change? I came across it because I was setting up my lists for next semester, noticed the change and came here.

Thanks,
Eric

[dank]

did FQ send out an email announcing this change?
I don't believe so.

Dan

[Melissa]

Hi Eric,

It would probably be best to send all of the information to Service@FutureQuest.net so that we can be sure we are looking at the correct account and lists. Please be sure to include all of the details, including the times (Eastern Time) and dates the messages were sent. Also, please provide some of the email addresses that state they didn't receive the messages.

Thanks much,
Melissa

[Randall]

did FQ send out an email announcing this change? I got one on Nov 17.

Randall

[Bob]

Originally posted by dank:
I don't believe so.

Dan A QuestReport mailing was sent as follows...
Subject: [FQuest Notice] ezMLM subdomain name change [mlm -> lists]
Date: 11/17/2003
Greetings,

There have been numerous requests to change the existing
ezMLM subdomain name to something other than 'mlm' due
to increased spam filters that may discredit email
containing the word 'mlm'.

The change will now be completed.

When: November 18th, 2003
Window: 2:50am - 6:00am EST
Duration: 5 - 30 minutes

The new MX Record for the ezMLM subdomain name is
being changed:
From: 'mlm.example.org'
To: 'lists.example.org'

Every domain has had the new 'lists.' MX Record added
within the FutureQuest DNS for over two weeks now.
This was done to ensure it has had plenty of time to
mitigate any propagation issues.

The ezMLM software itself and the CNC has been modified to
work with this new subdomain.

The 'mlm' name will also continue to work to ensure existing
lists are not affected by this change. New lists should be
created using the 'lists' format (which the CNC will do
automatically), however, if you require the use of the
'mlm' name, by all means, it will still function as desired.

Complete details and discussions concerning this
announcements can be found by pointing your browser to
the Server News Forum located at:
http://Aota.net/Forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=15817

We look forward to seeing you there!

Sincerely,

FutureQuest, Inc.
http://www.FutureQuest.net

===========

QuestReport Mailing List Information
To un/subscribe visit
http://www.QuestReport.com
-Bob 8}

[dank]

Maybe the notices were only sent to people with mailing lists configured in their CNC?

Dan

[Randall]

I don't even have a list. ;)

Randall

[dank]

Just searched, and nothing by that subject on that day received... Unless it got tagged by SA and placed in the Junk folder, which I just cleared out a couple days ago.

Dan

[Randall]

FQ mail isn't whitelisted by default?

Randall

[Bob]

Hello Dan,

I don't have access to the QuestReport mailing list so i can't see if you are subscribed... The mailing was only sent to the QuestReport list AFAIK...
http://www.questreport.com/

-Bob

[dank]

I don't know of any previous announcements I haven't received...

Is the QuestReport mailing list different from the one used for typical announcements, such as server upgrades and added goodies?

Dan

[chernove]

Originally posted by Melissa:

It would probably be best to send all of the information to Service@FutureQuest.net so that we can be sure we are looking at the correct account and lists. Please be sure to include all of the details, including the times (Eastern Time) and dates the messages were sent. Also, please provide some of the email addresses that state they didn't receive the messages.

Melissa,

Thanks for your response. I just sent an email to Service@FutureQuest.net with the subject "Email Lists Gone Awry." You folks should be getting it soon.

Thanks,
Eric

[Melissa]

Hi Eric,

Thank you. Your original email as well as the follow up email has been received and responded to. You should receive our responses shortly, if you haven't received them already. :)

Best regards,
Melissa

[mkolon]

I have always had a DNS MX record listing mlm.<mydomain> as mail21.futurequest.net, so that my list users could just write to <listname>@<mydomain> rather than <listname@mlm.<mydomain>.

As of the server change, one person is no longer receiving list-generated mail, although his (indeed, everyone's) sending is not affected. I've just made a new MX entry for lists@ just like the one I had for mlm@. Should that fix matters?

If not, any ideas? This user is at the mercy of a lotus-notes-based mail account and an army of bureaucratic admins, so hopefully I can resolve this without having to ask him to request too much help on his end.

Thanks,

/matt

[Bob]

Originally posted by mkolon:
I've just made a new MX entry for lists@ just like the one I had for mlm@. Should that fix matters?
It is possible that since you are managing your own DNS that the receiving mail server was recognizing @mlm.domain.com as you had set a MX record for that but didn't recognize @lists.domain.com as until now you had not set an MX record for that...

ie... receiving mail server sees mail From: @mlm.domain.com sees a proper MX record and allows...

receiving mail server starts seeing From: @lists.domain.com finds no valid MX record for that and rejects however if they are rejecting properly a bounce should have been generated.

It is also possible that the receivers mail system recently implemented some sort of filtering (or upgraded their filtering) which is now tagging the list mailings as spam :dunno:

The only way to know for sure would be to inquire with the mail administrator for the remote mail server...

-Bob

[mkolon]

Thanks Bob. In fact, since I added lists@ to DNS, the affected party has again begun to receive mail from one of the lists, so I think your first suggestion was correct.

Just for fun, though, I'm asking him to ask his admins if they do in fact validate the sender this way, and if so, why we didn't see any rejects coming back when he couldn't be reached.

Thanks for the fast help!

[SusanHorizons]

if you have made custom modifications to the text files within the list you may need to fix them up yourself.

Well, we had made modifications to several of the text files in order to make them more understandable to our users! We didn't change the old files when all this happened, just started using the new ones. I recently tested a subscribe to one of the older lists, and it came in with a Spam Assassin rating of 3.39, of which 2.1 points was for the MLM in the address!

[rant]What pathetic geek originally decided that mlm was a good acronym to use for mailing lists, without checking what else the acronym stood for! {/end rant]

Now it appears we will have to manually edit hundreds of the older files (several years worth). Does anyone know of a utility which works on the server to allow Search and Replace - e.g. mlm. with lists. The horrible alternative is to download every text file, change it and reupload individually.

Help!

Susan