E-mail bouncing - FQ to AOL

[teach1st]

I'm not sure what this means:

Hi. This is the qmail-send program at six.futurequest.net.
I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following addresses.
This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out.

<SOMEONE@aol.com>:
Connected to 152.163.224.122 but greeting failed.
Remote host said: 550-The information presently available to AOL indicates that your server
550-is open to the free relaying of e-mail, and is being used to retransmit
550-unsolicited bulk e-mail to AOL.[nbsp][nbsp]Based on AOL's Unsolicited Bulk E-mail
550-policy at http://www.aol.com/info/bulkemail.html, AOL cannot accept
550-further e-mail transactions from your server until that server is
550-closed to free relaying. For additional information, please visit
550[nbsp][nbsp]http://postmaster.info.aol.com.
I'm not going to try again; this message has been in the queue too long.

--- Below this line is a copy of the message.

Return-Path: <fred@pb5th.com>
Received: (qmail 9829 invoked from network); 3 Mar 2001 01:06:43 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO pb5th.com) (65.34.4.xxx)
[nbsp][nbsp]by x28.futurequest.net with SMTP; 3 Mar 2001 01:06:43 -0000
Message-ID: <200103022006180500.009F99A2@pb5th.com>
X-Mailer: Calypso Version 3.20.01.01 (3)
Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 20:06:18 -0500
Reply-To: fred@pb5th.com
From: &quot;Fred Roemer&quot; <fred@pb5th.com>
To: SOMEONE@aol.com

------------------
fred

[This message has been edited by teach1st (edited 03-03-01@9:18 pm)]

[Kara]

I got the same thing!!![nbsp][nbsp]I'm also an AOL member so I tested my scripts and sure enough the e-mail isn't getting through.[nbsp][nbsp]So I called AOL threatening to cancel my account and I actually got somewhere.

800-265-2782 is the number to Partner Web Support open 8-5 M-F EST, but if you have an emergency the message tells you to call 703-265-4676 so I did.[nbsp][nbsp]In 24-48 hours someone is supposed to get back to me.[nbsp][nbsp]I'm not holding my breath.[nbsp][nbsp]

Kara <~~digruntled AOL member

[Kara]

BTW that mean AOL is BLOCKING mail from the scripts running on your site.[nbsp][nbsp]GGGGgggggrrrrr

Kara

[teach1st]

This particular e-mail wasn't even from a script..just a regular ol' e-mail.

[Kara]

It was a regular mail??[nbsp][nbsp]I sent a test e-mail to my own AOL addy and it went thru, but maybe it's because my mail headers are showing AOL IP numbers...

I HATE AOL!!!
Oh I am dumping them once I move (week and a half)

Kara

[Terra]

Oh sheesh!!!

With as much Spam that AOL get's - they might as well cutoff the entire Internet...

It would have also been nice if they contacted us with the offending email(s)...[nbsp][nbsp]I would lay 5 to 1 odds that the email was not really Spam, and was the failure of reading the directions when submitting something somewhere for whatever information...

And oh yeah - for the record, we are NOT an open relay...

If they want to block our servers without substantiation, then fine - I'm tired of bending over for AOL, Inc. and their whims to do whatever they feel like doing however they want to do it.[nbsp][nbsp]Many hosts like us revolted against their broken DNS changes and after a several month standoff - they backed off and actually read the DNS RFC(s) to figure out how to do it right...

I can only flex/bend so far before ----snap----.

--
Terra
--I've had it up to here with false-positive Spam complaints--
FutureQuest

[Terra]

Ha Ha!

How cute:
For the weekend of 03/03-03/04, due to unforeseen circumstances, the open relay search may be inaccurate. Please wait 24 hours and retest delivery to AOL. If within 24 hours the problem has not cleared, please send email to openrelay@aol.net
*sigh*

--
Terra
--Guilty till proven innocent--
FutureQuest


[This message has been edited by ccTech (edited 03-03-01@9:47 pm)]

[teach1st]

I just called the emergency e-mail number (thanks, Kara!) and the AOL folks said that this would be fixed within 24 hours. We'll see.
------------------
fred

[Kara]

AOL sucks and I'm gonna get A LOT of complaints over this too.[nbsp][nbsp]I'll tell the AOL members to call,c omplain, threaten to cancel, be heard and get a lousy free month of crappy half-baked internet service. They used to block some (not all) mail sent through topica.[nbsp][nbsp]Gawd they drive me nuts!

Kara
disgruntled AOL who'd rather TAKE her SPAM (and delete it too)

[Kara]

Well in that 24 hours I'm gonna get A LOT of SPAM from AOL!![nbsp][nbsp]Maybe I should send then to tosspam@aol.com LOL!!

Kara

[Terra]

Just to make sure that something wasn't messed up anywhere, I performed the routine relay checks:
Trying 204.152.184.74...
Connected to mail-abuse.org.
Escape character is '^]'.
Connecting to 63.95.221.101 ...
<<< 220 six.futurequest.net ESMTP<<< 220 six.futurequest.net ESMTP
>>> HELO dante.mail-abuse.org
<<< 250-six.futurequest.net<<< 250-PIPELINING
<<< 250 8BITMIME
:Relay test: #Quote test
>>> mail from: <spamtest@six.futurequest.net>
<<< 250 ok<<< 250 ok
>>> rcpt to: <&quot;nobody@mail-abuse.org&quot;>
<<< 553 sorry, that domain isn't in my list of allowed rcpthosts (#5.7.1)<<< 553 sorry, that domain isn't in my list of allowed rcpthosts (#5.7.1)
>>> rset
<<< 250 flushed<<< 250 flushed
:Relay test: #Test 1
>>> mail from: <nobody@mail-abuse.org>
<<< 250 ok<<< 250 ok
>>> rcpt to: <nobody@mail-abuse.org>
<<< 553 sorry, that domain isn't in my list of allowed rcpthosts (#5.7.1)<<< 553 sorry, that domain isn't in my list of allowed rcpthosts (#5.7.1)
>>> rset
<<< 250 flushed<<< 250 flushed
:Relay test: #Test 2
>>> mail from: <spamtest@maps1.pa.vix.com>
<<< 250 ok<<< 250 ok
>>> rcpt to: <nobody@mail-abuse.org>
<<< 553 sorry, that domain isn't in my list of allowed rcpthosts (#5.7.1)<<< 553 sorry, that domain isn't in my list of allowed rcpthosts (#5.7.1)
>>> rset
<<< 250 flushed<<< 250 flushed
:Relay test: #test 3
>>> mail from: <spamtest@localhost>
<<< 250 ok<<< 250 ok
>>> rcpt to: <nobody@mail-abuse.org>
<<< 553 sorry, that domain isn't in my list of allowed rcpthosts (#5.7.1)<<< 553 sorry, that domain isn't in my list of allowed rcpthosts (#5.7.1)
>>> rset
<<< 250 flushed<<< 250 flushed
:Relay test: #Test 4
>>> mail from: <spamtest>
<<< 250 ok<<< 250 ok
>>> rcpt to: <nobody@mail-abuse.org>
<<< 553 sorry, that domain isn't in my list of allowed rcpthosts (#5.7.1)<<< 553 sorry, that domain isn't in my list of allowed rcpthosts (#5.7.1)
>>> rset
<<< 250 flushed<<< 250 flushed
:Relay test: #Test 5
>>> mail from: <>
<<< 250 ok<<< 250 ok
>>> rcpt to: <nobody@mail-abuse.org>
<<< 553 sorry, that domain isn't in my list of allowed rcpthosts (#5.7.1)<<< 553 sorry, that domain isn't in my list of allowed rcpthosts (#5.7.1)
>>> rset
<<< 250 flushed<<< 250 flushed
:Relay test: #Test 6
>>> mail from: <spamtest@six.futurequest.net>
<<< 250 ok<<< 250 ok
>>> rcpt to: <nobody@mail-abuse.org>
<<< 553 sorry, that domain isn't in my list of allowed rcpthosts (#5.7.1)<<< 553 sorry, that domain isn't in my list of allowed rcpthosts (#5.7.1)
>>> rset
<<< 250 flushed<<< 250 flushed
:Relay test: #Test 7
>>> mail from: <spamtest@[63.95.221.101]>
<<< 250 ok<<< 250 ok
>>> rcpt to: <nobody@mail-abuse.org>
<<< 553 sorry, that domain isn't in my list of allowed rcpthosts (#5.7.1)<<< 553 sorry, that domain isn't in my list of allowed rcpthosts (#5.7.1)
>>> rset
<<< 250 flushed<<< 250 flushed
:Relay test: #Test 8
>>> mail from: <spamtest@six.futurequest.net>
<<< 250 ok<<< 250 ok
>>> rcpt to: <nobody%mail-abuse.org@six.futurequest.net>
<<< 250 ok<<< 250 ok
>>> QUIT
<<< 221 six.futurequest.net<<< 221 six.futurequest.net
Tested host banner: 220 six.futurequest.net ESMTP
System appeared to accept 1 relay attempts
Now you may think that Test #8 caused AOL to wig out and block us, but any sysAdmin worth a grain of salt knows that QMail, once again, does the right thing according to spec:
http://meehan.org/qmail.html

I rest my case...

btw, thanks everyone for not pointing the AOL guns at me - your responses felt like a breath of fresh air...[nbsp][nbsp]:)

--
Terra
--.bump. .bump. .bump. .bump. .bump. - sound of AOL sysAdmin trying to walk through a doorway--
FutureQuest

[This message has been edited by ccTech (edited 03-03-01@10:18 pm)]

[Cindy]

Today is the 4th day my mail to AOL users hasn't gone through. Thursday was the last day it worked okay.

Do I understand correctly from the posts that we're just waiting for AOL to fix something on their end?

Cindy

Guess I have more friends and family, not to mention Web site customers, on AOL than I ever realized.

[hearts]

Well, i have finally heard from aol. I believe her e-mail had a typo I will post it exactly as she has written though.

This p-i-sses me off. (can I say that?)


We've recently implemented a new form of blocking on our servers.[nbsp][nbsp]We're not starting to block servers that are open to free relaying (3rd party relaying).[nbsp][nbsp]This means that anyone on the internet can use the server to send mail.[nbsp][nbsp]What was your IP address again?[nbsp][nbsp]I'll check to see if it's open, and let you know.

I believe she meant to say &quot;now&quot; and not &quot;not&quot;.

This is exactly what happened with BlueMountain .. very similar situation.

This problem is STILL ongoing. I don't see a fix yet! I too am on SIX.

Thank you very much Kara... Your email meant the world to me today. :)

As for Terra bending over backwards for AOL. Thanks for that, but I don't think this really has to do with US going by their STANDARDS. IF their standards were so 'perfect' and 'required' then my emails would be cut by one half, as most of my spam comes from AOL.

This feels like a deliberate act, and as for them saying that it is a glitch in their system... they should be more truthful and say it is the incompetence of their services.

I have several hundred rejects from AOL now and they are still coming. The timing of this situation is not good for what my site is currently involved with.

At this point, a lawyer seems to be the best way to nail them for this.

I will keep you posted on what AOL says next....

.... as AOL burns .. let them burn in _____________-!

------------------
hearts
-----
Heartistic Wishes[nbsp][nbsp][nbsp][nbsp][nbsp][nbsp][nbsp][nbsp]www.HeartisticWishes.com (http://www.HeartisticWishes.com)[nbsp][nbsp]

[This message has been edited by hearts (edited 03-05-01@1:47 pm)]

[Terra]

In light of this situation, plus banging my head against the wall with AOL, I have made some customizations to our SMTP daemon...

Below are the results from the last Open Relay test:
Trying 204.152.184.74...
Connected to mail-abuse.org.
Escape character is '^]'.
Connecting to 63.95.221.101 ...
<<< 220 six.futurequest.net ESMTP<<< 220 six.futurequest.net ESMTP
>>> HELO dante.mail-abuse.org
<<< 250-six.futurequest.net<<< 250-PIPELINING
<<< 250 8BITMIME
:Relay test: #Quote test
>>> mail from: <spamtest@six.futurequest.net>
<<< 250 ok<<< 250 ok
>>> rcpt to: <&quot;nobody@mail-abuse.org&quot;>
<<< 553 sorry, that domain isn't in my list of allowed rcpthosts (#5.7.1)<<< 553 sorry, that domain isn't in my list of allowed rcpthosts (#5.7.1)
>>> rset
<<< 250 flushed<<< 250 flushed
:Relay test: #Test 1
>>> mail from: <nobody@mail-abuse.org>
<<< 250 ok<<< 250 ok
>>> rcpt to: <nobody@mail-abuse.org>
<<< 553 sorry, that domain isn't in my list of allowed rcpthosts (#5.7.1)<<< 553 sorry, that domain isn't in my list of allowed rcpthosts (#5.7.1)
>>> rset
<<< 250 flushed<<< 250 flushed
:Relay test: #Test 2
>>> mail from: <spamtest@maps1.pa.vix.com>
<<< 250 ok<<< 250 ok
>>> rcpt to: <nobody@mail-abuse.org>
<<< 553 sorry, that domain isn't in my list of allowed rcpthosts (#5.7.1)<<< 553 sorry, that domain isn't in my list of allowed rcpthosts (#5.7.1)
>>> rset
<<< 250 flushed<<< 250 flushed
:Relay test: #test 3
>>> mail from: <spamtest@localhost>
<<< 250 ok<<< 250 ok
>>> rcpt to: <nobody@mail-abuse.org>
<<< 553 sorry, that domain isn't in my list of allowed rcpthosts (#5.7.1)<<< 553 sorry, that domain isn't in my list of allowed rcpthosts (#5.7.1)
>>> rset
<<< 250 flushed<<< 250 flushed
:Relay test: #Test 4
>>> mail from: <spamtest>
<<< 250 ok<<< 250 ok
>>> rcpt to: <nobody@mail-abuse.org>
<<< 553 sorry, that domain isn't in my list of allowed rcpthosts (#5.7.1)<<< 553 sorry, that domain isn't in my list of allowed rcpthosts (#5.7.1)
>>> rset
<<< 250 flushed<<< 250 flushed
:Relay test: #Test 5
>>> mail from: <>
<<< 250 ok<<< 250 ok
>>> rcpt to: <nobody@mail-abuse.org>
<<< 553 sorry, that domain isn't in my list of allowed rcpthosts (#5.7.1)<<< 553 sorry, that domain isn't in my list of allowed rcpthosts (#5.7.1)
>>> rset
<<< 250 flushed<<< 250 flushed
:Relay test: #Test 6
>>> mail from: <spamtest@six.futurequest.net>
<<< 250 ok<<< 250 ok
>>> rcpt to: <nobody@mail-abuse.org>
<<< 553 sorry, that domain isn't in my list of allowed rcpthosts (#5.7.1)<<< 553 sorry, that domain isn't in my list of allowed rcpthosts (#5.7.1)
>>> rset
<<< 250 flushed<<< 250 flushed
:Relay test: #Test 7
>>> mail from: <spamtest@[63.95.221.101]>
<<< 250 ok<<< 250 ok
>>> rcpt to: <nobody@mail-abuse.org>
<<< 553 sorry, that domain isn't in my list of allowed rcpthosts (#5.7.1)<<< 553 sorry, that domain isn't in my list of allowed rcpthosts (#5.7.1)
>>> rset
<<< 250 flushed<<< 250 flushed
:Relay test: #Test 8
>>> mail from: <spamtest@six.futurequest.net>
<<< 250 ok<<< 250 ok
>>> rcpt to: <nobody%mail-abuse.org@six.futurequest.net>
<<< 555 due to AOL Inc. delivery restrictons, we must now grab our ankles and not allow percent signs in addresses (#5.5.4)<<< 555 due to AOL Inc. delivery restrictons, we must now grab our ankles and not allow percent signs in addresses (#5.5.4)
>>> rset
<<< <<<
Connecting to 63.95.221.101 ...
<<< 220 six.futurequest.net ESMTP<<< 220 six.futurequest.net ESMTP
>>> HELO dante.mail-abuse.org
<<< 250-six.futurequest.net<<< 250-PIPELINING
<<< 250 8BITMIME
:Relay test: #Test 9
>>> mail from: <spamtest@six.futurequest.net>
<<< 250 ok<<< 250 ok
>>> rcpt to: <nobody%mail-abuse.org@[63.95.221.101]>
<<< 555 due to AOL Inc. delivery restrictons, we must now grab our ankles and not allow percent signs in addresses (#5.5.4)<<< 555 due to AOL Inc. delivery restrictons, we must now grab our ankles and not allow percent signs in addresses (#5.5.4)
>>> rset
<<< <<<
Connecting to 63.95.221.101 ...
<<< 220 six.futurequest.net ESMTP<<< 220 six.futurequest.net ESMTP
>>> HELO dante.mail-abuse.org
<<< 250-six.futurequest.net<<< 250-PIPELINING
<<< 250 8BITMIME
:Relay test: #Test 10
>>> mail from: <spamtest@six.futurequest.net>
<<< 250 ok<<< 250 ok
>>> rcpt to: <&quot;nobody@mail-abuse.org&quot;>
<<< 553 sorry, that domain isn't in my list of allowed rcpthosts (#5.7.1)<<< 553 sorry, that domain isn't in my list of allowed rcpthosts (#5.7.1)
>>> rset
<<< 250 flushed<<< 250 flushed
:Relay test: #Test 11
>>> mail from: <spamtest@six.futurequest.net>
<<< 250 ok<<< 250 ok
>>> rcpt to: <&quot;nobody%mail-abuse.org&quot;>
<<< 555 due to AOL Inc. delivery restrictons, we must now grab our ankles and not allow percent signs in addresses (#5.5.4)<<< 555 due to AOL Inc. delivery restrictons, we must now grab our ankles and not allow percent signs in addresses (#5.5.4)
>>> rset
<<< <<<
Connecting to 63.95.221.101 ...
<<< 220 six.futurequest.net ESMTP<<< 220 six.futurequest.net ESMTP
>>> HELO dante.mail-abuse.org
<<< 250-six.futurequest.net<<< 250-PIPELINING
<<< 250 8BITMIME
:Relay test: #Test 12
>>> mail from: <spamtest@[63.95.221.101]>
<<< 250 ok<<< 250 ok
>>> rcpt to: <&quot;nobody@mail-abuse.org@six.futurequest.net&quot;>
<<< 553 sorry, that domain isn't in my list of allowed rcpthosts (#5.7.1)<<< 553 sorry, that domain isn't in my list of allowed rcpthosts (#5.7.1)
>>> rset
<<< 250 flushed<<< 250 flushed
:Relay test: #Test 13
>>> mail from: <spamtest@six.futurequest.net>
<<< 250 ok<<< 250 ok
>>> rcpt to: <&quot;nobody@mail-abuse.org&quot;@[63.95.221.101]>
<<< 553 sorry, that domain isn't in my list of allowed rcpthosts (#5.7.1)<<< 553 sorry, that domain isn't in my list of allowed rcpthosts (#5.7.1)
>>> rset
<<< 250 flushed<<< 250 flushed
:Relay test: #Test 14
>>> mail from: <spamtest@six.futurequest.net>
<<< 250 ok<<< 250 ok
>>> rcpt to: <nobody@mail-abuse.org@[63.95.221.101]>
<<< 553 sorry, that domain isn't in my list of allowed rcpthosts (#5.7.1)<<< 553 sorry, that domain isn't in my list of allowed rcpthosts (#5.7.1)
>>> rset
<<< 250 flushed<<< 250 flushed
:Relay test: #Test 15
>>> mail from: <spamtest@[63.95.221.101]>
<<< 250 ok<<< 250 ok
>>> rcpt to: <@six.futurequest.net:nobody@mail-abuse.org>
<<< 553 sorry, that domain isn't in my list of allowed rcpthosts (#5.7.1)<<< 553 sorry, that domain isn't in my list of allowed rcpthosts (#5.7.1)
>>> rset
<<< 250 flushed<<< 250 flushed
:Relay test: #Test 16
>>> mail from: <spamtest@six.futurequest.net>
<<< 250 ok<<< 250 ok
>>> rcpt to: <@[63.95.221.101]:nobody@mail-abuse.org>
<<< 553 sorry, that domain isn't in my list of allowed rcpthosts (#5.7.1)<<< 553 sorry, that domain isn't in my list of allowed rcpthosts (#5.7.1)
>>> rset
<<< 250 flushed<<< 250 flushed
:Relay test: #Test 17
>>> mail from: <spamtest@[63.95.221.101]>
<<< 250 ok<<< 250 ok
>>> rcpt to: <mail-abuse.org!nobody>
<<< 555 due to AOL Inc. delivery restrictons, we must now grab our ankles and not allow exclamation points in addresses (#5.5.4)<<< 555 due to AOL Inc. delivery restrictons, we must now grab our ankles and not allow exclamation points in addresses (#5.5.4)
>>> rset
<<< <<<
Connecting to 63.95.221.101 ...
<<< 220 six.futurequest.net ESMTP<<< 220 six.futurequest.net ESMTP
>>> HELO dante.mail-abuse.org
<<< 250-six.futurequest.net<<< 250-PIPELINING
<<< 250 8BITMIME
:Relay test: #test 18
>>> mail from: <spamtest@six.futurequest.net>
<<< 250 ok<<< 250 ok
>>> rcpt to: <mail-abuse.org!nobody@[63.95.221.101]>
<<< 555 due to AOL Inc. delivery restrictons, we must now grab our ankles and not allow exclamation points in addresses (#5.5.4)<<< 555 due to AOL Inc. delivery restrictons, we must now grab our ankles and not allow exclamation points in addresses (#5.5.4)
>>> rset
<<< <<<
Connecting to 63.95.221.101 ...
<<< 220 six.futurequest.net ESMTP<<< 220 six.futurequest.net ESMTP
>>> HELO dante.mail-abuse.org
<<< 250-six.futurequest.net<<< 250-PIPELINING
<<< 250 8BITMIME
:Relay test: #test 19
>>> mail from: <postmaster@six.futurequest.net>
<<< 250 ok<<< 250 ok
>>> rcpt to: <nobody@mail-abuse.org>
<<< 553 sorry, that domain isn't in my list of allowed rcpthosts (#5.7.1)<<< 553 sorry, that domain isn't in my list of allowed rcpthosts (#5.7.1)
>>> rset
<<< 250 flushed<<< 250 flushed
>>> QUIT
<<< 221 six.futurequest.net<<< 221 six.futurequest.net
Tested host banner: 220 six.futurequest.net ESMTP
System appeared to reject relay attempts

As far as I'm concerned, we have just now broken spec to satisfy the wishes of our clients and also to AOL's moronic demands...

The ball is now in their court to do the right thing and release SIX and NINE from their Open Relay list!

--
Terra
--But I'm waiting here in this cell because I have to know,[nbsp][nbsp]Have I been guilty all this time?--
FutureQuest

[hearts]

I have this update from the AOL Postmaster:


I'm not sure what you mean by &quot;giving you the truth&quot;..?[nbsp][nbsp]I've stated above what the problem was, I've tested the IP and it does appear that it is closed.[nbsp][nbsp]If it's currently not working, it should be within the next 3
hours.
I wrote and told her:
That her email contradicted what the rejection notice stated and that I was aware that I was not the only person experiencing this problem and asked her to give me the truth about what was happening. ;)

This email from her came in an hour ago. So.. 2 hours to go!

I hate AOL.

I wonder how we got blocked in the first place. :(


------------------
hearts
-----
Heartistic Wishes[nbsp][nbsp][nbsp][nbsp][nbsp][nbsp][nbsp][nbsp]www.HeartisticWishes.com (http://www.HeartisticWishes.com)[nbsp][nbsp]

[Kara]

I just got off the phone with a woman at the 800 number I gave y'all before.[nbsp][nbsp]She gave me her e-mail address to use in one of my scripts.[nbsp][nbsp]I didn't realize that it will probably bounce, but there is more then one way to skin a cat.[nbsp][nbsp]They want to see my mail headers.[nbsp][nbsp]Come on![nbsp][nbsp]I hate AOL I really really hate them!

Heart - I e-mailed you cuz I knew how you felt.[nbsp][nbsp]I was livid when I saw those bounces too and I've forwarded about 100 e-mails so far.[nbsp][nbsp]UGH!

Kara

[eunice]

What's weird is that I'm getting failure notices for mail I send personally to aol accounts but have several mlm lists and haven't received any failure notices regarding the mail on those lists that's going to the aol accounts.[nbsp][nbsp]I don't know if that means those messages are going through or if I'm just not getting the bounce notices.[nbsp][nbsp]I'm confused.[nbsp][nbsp]And very annoyed.[nbsp][nbsp]I can hate aol all I want (and I do, believe me, I do) but unfortunately many many people on my lists don't seem to share my feelings.

Thanks for doing what you're doing, Terra - you're the coolest.
------------------
--Laurie

[hearts]

Kara, please send me that 800 number in email. *please*

It is after 6pm and I am still with this problem. I have over 300 rejects so far. What I have done is put this in the header of all the forwards that I am sending from hotmail:

Heartistic Wishes is experiencing technical difficulties with AOL.

Until we can get them resolved please accept this notice for your email greeting notification.

We are sorry to have to report this situation. Please help us help you by going to http://www.aol.com/info/feedback.html -- we are unable to deliver your greetings until AOL fixes their problem.

Thank you for understanding
The users, I won't never put them down! ;)[nbsp][nbsp]They have gladly accepted their notifications, cuz I am getting all their pick up notifications, cuz those are rejected too.

Hopefully they will flood the feedback form! *evil grin*

When this is over with, I am gonna get a 12 pack! ;)

Thank you everybody. I am sorry we are all having to experience this.

Makes ya wonder why AOL fears FQ! and their clients!


------------------
hearts
-----
Heartistic Wishes[nbsp][nbsp][nbsp][nbsp][nbsp][nbsp][nbsp][nbsp]www.HeartisticWishes.com (http://www.HeartisticWishes.com)[nbsp][nbsp]

[sheila]

I'm on NINE, and I sent a test mail through, yesterday, to postmaster@aol.com. It came back today, with a similar rejection header to others posted earlier in this thread.

I usually use a different SMTP server. I just ran the test yesterday, to confirm whether or not the rejection was for accounts hosted on NINE as well, and apparently it is.

[Jeff]

New question for webmasters to ask their clients first:

So now are you using AOL or are you on the Internet?

[sheila]

To be perfectly fair about this, and I am no AOL fan, but AOL is not the only one who runs open-relay tests on SMTP servers and then blocks them based on the results. It's just that AOL is so big, and has so many customers to whom we would like to send e-mail, that we are more likely to notice when AOL takes an action like this.

[hearts]

To be perfectly fair about this...... This isn't a test. This is an implemented so called filter.

To be perfectly fair about this, we are on a community server. They are blocking hundreds of us. EVEN *if* just one of us were the target, they disabled THEIR users from being interactive with our sites.

I am just picking at the statement... 'to be perfectly fair' -- nothing personal I assure you. :)

Seems more like they are trying to control their users. Filtering? -- more like intercepting.

*looking for a time conversion chart*
3 hours my configuration = what in AOLand? Maybe cuz they are such a huge company their three hours translates into three days?

... if that were true, 24 hours would be 24 days. There's no hope!!

*sigh* Four more rejects to resend from hotmail.

[Deb]

&quot;Waiting&quot; is not the only thing being done but sadly can often be the only solution <img src="http://www.aota.net/ubb/confuse.gif" alt=":/" width=15 height=15>

TeRRa is working on some ideas that *might* help solve this issue as well ...[nbsp][nbsp]I would still advise, those able, to contact aol and complain...

Deb
[nbsp]- And that one in the spotlight, he don't look right to me.
[nbsp][nbsp][nbsp][nbsp][nbsp][nbsp][nbsp][nbsp][nbsp][nbsp]Get him up against the wall.

[Kara]

Jeff, I use AOL and I'm on the net.[nbsp][nbsp]I've been on AOL for 5 years, but during that first year I never saw the net.[nbsp][nbsp]If they are at your site then they are too right?

I also can't e-mail earthlink.[nbsp][nbsp]I get the &quot;spammers not welcome here.[nbsp][nbsp]They are better then AOL and notice that my IP number and e-mail address don't match.[nbsp][nbsp]With my AOL mail headers I can e-mail AOL with no prob from my account on FQ.

Well the woman from Partner Web Support has finally read my e-mail.[nbsp][nbsp]One cool thing about sending from one AOL member to another is I can check to see if they read it and they can't stop that from happening LOL.[nbsp][nbsp]They are supposed to call me back tomorrow.[nbsp][nbsp]I won't hold my breathe.

Kara
[nbsp]

[Kara]

Anyone have any theory as to why they are only blocking mail from SIX and NINE???

Oh and what is an open relay?

Kara
[This message has been edited by Kara (edited 03-06-01@12:16 pm)]

[sheila]

An open relay is a mail server, that &quot;anyone&quot; can send mail through.

The reason that open relays are bad, is because almost all spam gets sent through open relays.

By blocking open relays, you are probably preventing yourself from receiving spam. The problem is, not all open relays are guilty of sending spam. Plus, you may end up blocking legitimate e-mail as well (as is happening in this case). Also, the definition of what, exactly, constitutes an &quot;open relay&quot; may vary from one sysadmin to the next.

For example, as a customer of gte.net/verizon.net, I happen to know that their SMTP server is a type of open relay. Anyone who sends an e-mail with a From: address of the form user@gte.net will be able to send mail through their server, even though you don't have an account with them and don't have a direct connection to their network. This means, that anyone can send mail through their server, providing (of course) that you're willing to forge a gte.net e-mail address.

I betcha, though, that AOL isn't blocking GTE/Verizon/Genuity/BBNPlanet. Naw, that's too big a backbone to block.

You can find out more about open relays and blocking here:
http://www.orbs.org/userindex.html

[sheila]

Here is my &quot;theory&quot; about why they are only (currently) blocking SIX and NINE:

AOL has recently started running their own open relay tests. I've noticed them test my SMTP server (that I run out of my home). If they are able, through some means, to send a message through the server, then they mark it as an open relay. Then they block all mail coming from that IP address. I'm not sure what one has to do to have the block removed, and I'm sure that FQ is doing everything that they can to have the blocks removed.

I figure, the only reason it's just SIX and NINE at this point, is because those are the only ones they have tested, so far. I'm guessing, that based on what SMTP servers are connecting to them to deliver mail, they put those servers in a queue for testing. I'd guess, that the servers that are delivering more mail probably have a higher priority for testing? (Theory being: the more mail one particular server sends, the more likely it is to be a source of spam???)

Anyone who thinks my theory is full of holes, is welcome to say so.

[Rich]

*looking for a time conversion chart*
Whoops! I heard that. :)

Sorry, but you won't find the AOL time zone implemented because I couldn't figure out how provide an answer that was always a random imaginary time.

Rich
www.timeconverter.com (http://www.timeconverter.com)

p.s. Hi hearts!

[Steve Case]

I don't understand all the problems reported here about AOL. I dont ever have any problems ^!

I get and send email fine to all my aol IM chat buddies. *$

And we play aol games that i've linked from my aol home page. +#

Never seen any kinds of problems at all. Besides, AOL has invented a way so that you don't need all that @part stuff anyway. @~

Steve
email: steve42879426798327781250226

how do you do them faces things? {face] @% 0(

[sheila]

Oh, please, Steve. The problems with AOL are too numerous to go into, here. We'd have to put up a separate bulletin board just for that discussion.

:P

[hearts]

(Don't tell Bill) -- Rich, I am *very* glad to see you! I misplaced your number and I have been dying for your intelligent advice about something.

Imaginary time? *darn* More truth to that than there is AOL fixing the problem! ;)[nbsp][nbsp]

----------
hearts
---

PS.... hello Rich!
[This message has been edited by hearts (edited 03-06-01@01:38 am)]

[zmax]

Im having the same **** problem!!!!

I say we write from other accounts to support@aol.com asking them to fix this until they do.

David
www.worldwidecat.com (http://www.worldwidecat.com)

Subject:
[nbsp][nbsp][nbsp][nbsp][nbsp][nbsp][nbsp][nbsp]failure notice
[nbsp][nbsp] Date:
[nbsp][nbsp][nbsp][nbsp][nbsp][nbsp][nbsp][nbsp]6 Mar 2001 03:42:21 -0000
[nbsp][nbsp] From:
[nbsp][nbsp][nbsp][nbsp][nbsp][nbsp][nbsp][nbsp]MAILER-DAEMON@nine.futurequest.net
[nbsp][nbsp][nbsp][nbsp] To:
[nbsp][nbsp][nbsp][nbsp][nbsp][nbsp][nbsp][nbsp]user@worldwidecat.com

Hi. This is the qmail-send program at nine.futurequest.net.
I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following addresses.
This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out.

<xxxx@aol.com>:
Connected to 152.163.224.26 but greeting failed.
Remote host said: 550-The information presently available to AOL indicates that your server
550-is open to the free relaying of e-mail, and is being used to retransmit
550-unsolicited bulk e-mail to AOL.[nbsp][nbsp]Based on AOL's Unsolicited Bulk E-mail
550-policy at http://www.aol.com/info/bulkemail.html, AOL cannot accept
550-further e-mail transactions from your server until that server is
550-closed to free relaying. For additional information, please visit
550[nbsp][nbsp]http://postmaster.info.aol.com.
I'm not going to try again; this message has been in the queue too long.

--- Below this line is a copy of the message.

Return-Path: <weinstein@worldwidecat.com>
Received: (qmail 7116 invoked from network); 5 Mar 2001 02:42:19 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO worldwidecat.com) (24.218.255.49)
[nbsp][nbsp]by x47.futurequest.net with SMTP; 5 Mar 2001 02:42:19 -0000
Message-ID: <3AA2FD5B.F36DC309@worldwidecat.com>
Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2001 21:43:39 -0500
From: Weinstein <weinstein@worldwidecat.com>
Organization: WorldWideCat.com
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win98; U)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: xxxxx@aol.com
Subject: Re: Note
References: <76.843ddb9.27d3c29a@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

[zmax]

Well wouldnt you know it but emails to support@aol.com come back saying there is no such mail box. I sent this from another account not FQ. That is bizzare. I hate AOL too!!!

David

[BOF]

I've read so many complaints and horror stories about AOL that it makes me wonder (as an outsider) why people sign up with them in the first place ... or is there no alternative in some areas?[nbsp][nbsp]Following on from that, why hasn't there been a mass exodus from AOL, given their poor record?

Commiserations and best wishes!


------------------
Chris
Hong Kong
www.simplyaromatics.com (http://www.simplyaromatics.com)
www.plainwebdesign.com (http://www.plainwebdesign.com)

[Terra]

I still have not heard a response from:
openrelay@aol.net

Both SIX and NINE are still on their list!

:(

--
Terra
--Is there anybody out there?--
FutureQuest

<EDIT: keeping with the PF theme>

[This message has been edited by ccTech (edited 03-06-01@11:01 am)]

[Kara]

E-mail POSTMASTER@aol.com.[nbsp][nbsp]I've been writing back and forth with them as well as a woman at AOL's Partner Web Support.[nbsp][nbsp]I'm putting some faith in the woman at Partner Web Support.[nbsp][nbsp]Hopefully, she can give some answers.

Kara

[Kara]

I've read so many complaints and horror stories about AOL that it makes me wonder (as an outsider) why people sign up with them in the first place
Ok a friend of mine tried an ISP before switching to AOL and she said the ISP was too hard.[nbsp][nbsp]She didn't know what to do.[nbsp][nbsp]AOL caters to the computer illiterate and makes things easier with each new version so they don't learn about the real internet.[nbsp][nbsp]They also have a good marketing dept.

Kara
[nbsp]

[Deb]

.... I just couldn't resist folks...please forgive me later...

http://www.militarymacaw.com/images/D1-Ae.jpg

Deb
[nbsp]- They pick on you because they are jealous of you...
[nbsp][nbsp][nbsp][nbsp][nbsp][nbsp][nbsp][nbsp]Author: Moms around the world

[Kara]

LMAO @ Deb![nbsp][nbsp]i just might have to post that on my own forums!!!

Kara

[Terra]

=bump to next page=

[Terra]

From the: &quot;Geeee, I'm glad they really thought this through department&quot;

I submit the following for your viewing/screaming pleasure...

I went to figure out where or why I wasn't receiving any results from their Open Relay testing procedure, then I stumbled on the following tidbit from:
http://postmaster.info.aol.com/index.cfm?sitenum=7&amp;article=9

If we find your IP in our Open Relay Database, we will send an email to Postmaster@IPaddress and root@IPaddress with the results of our last test and the time of our last test. If you do not own the Postmaster or root mailboxes at the specified IP address, you will need to collaborate with the owners to have your issue resolved. We test all of the servers in our list every 24 hours. Hence, if you use this tool, we will only send one message to root and postmaster every 24 hours as the status/disposition of your IP address in our database will not have changed. (In other words, you can &quot;call&quot; our database as many times as you want w/in a 24 hour period, but only one message will be sent to root and postmaster@ipaddress.)

That means they will send the report to SIX server via:
root@[63.95.221.101]
or
postmaster@[63.95.221.101]

So like a good little compliant sysAdmin, I went and re-setup the ability to send to the servers IP address for when their 'database interface tool' came back online:
Please note: This page is currently under construction. We estimate completion of the database interface tool by close of business, Wednesday, March 7. (i.e. This interface tool doesn't work yet.)
Now the plot thickens, if I follow their instructions/advice/recommendations - then the following will happen:

Connecting to 63.95.221.101 ...
<<< 220 six.futurequest.net ESMTP<<< 220 six.futurequest.net ESMTP
>>> HELO dante.mail-abuse.org
<<< 250-six.futurequest.net<<< 250-PIPELINING
<<< 250 8BITMIME
:Relay test: #Test 12
>>> mail from: <spamtest@[63.95.221.101]>
<<< 250 ok<<< 250 ok
>>> rcpt to: <&quot;nobody@mail-abuse.org@six.futurequest.net&quot;>
<<< 250 ok<<< 250 ok
>>> QUIT
<<< 221 six.futurequest.net<<< 221 six.futurequest.net
Tested host banner: 220 six.futurequest.net ESMTP
System appeared to accept 1 relay attempts
Guess what, they just told me to be an Open Relay again because sending to a servers IP '??????@[ip_address]' will fail the tests as shown by '#Test 12' above!!!!!

So now I'm back at square one, with absolutely no information from them whatsoever!

Grrrrrrrr!!!!!!!!

In Conclusion, I'm battling a war against inept morons!

--
Terra
--BTW: TAZ is now on their list as well--
FutureQuest

<EDIT: minor edit>
[This message has been edited by ccTech (edited 03-07-01@12:52 pm)]

[hearts]

Either I am gonna need therapy to get through this, or an overdose of something prescribed. The company that makes Virginia Slims is gonna love me cuz I smoke twice as much now.

Can anyone tell that this is truly disturbing me?

Well, FutureQuest, forgive me .. but I have lost communication with the woman that I was corresponding with. Can we say *ignored?*

So.. I wrote her my final letter. IF I did anything out of line, please let me live! ;)

I am enclosing a copy of my letter to AOL


Dear Heather,

I have been waiting patiently for a resolution on this situation and I haven't seen one. I have over 500 rejections now from AOL. I *will* gladly forward all of them if you don't believe me. If *you* cannot help me, then please advise me who will.

This situation began on March 3rd. I was told by you it would be solved by 6pm yesterday. I have been personally forwarding all my greeting cards via other email accounts.

Yes, I am frustrated. I am entitled. I am doing my best to be as polite as I know how with this situation. You have to understand. I have a web site where I look out for my users. I am currently forced to have to put an announcement at my web site letting AOL users, Gateway.com and cs.com know that I am blocked from sending their email greetings automatically. I will refer them to the AOL feedback page so they can help me get through to AOL and whomever it is that will be gracious enough to help fix this problem.

I am not given to many options here. I don't know what my rights are, but I am not afraid to find out. I am aware of a very similar situation that occurred with BlueMountain Greeting cards. I am not saying I am singled out when I know I am on a community server and AOL has crippled each of us that are hosted with FutureQuest. I also know for a *fact* that two of FQ's servers are unable to send mail to AOL users. I don't know the exact number of clients that involves, I will let you inquire with my hosting company. Support@FutureQuest.net

I don't know what else to do. But I will do what is best for my site. I have put two years into this site to build reputation and trust with my users. It would be a shame if AOL caused my site to collapse.

HOW WOULD YOU FEEL?

My last attempt with you. Then I will see what my legal rights are in this situation.

Hurt, upset, and baby sitting my site all around the clock to personally deliver my greeting cards to AOL users. Can AOL top that kind of support and service?

Kindest Regards,

<insert name, address, and phone number here>

I wish FQ could grant miracles and just delete AOL!

------------------
hearts
-----
Heartistic Wishes[nbsp][nbsp][nbsp][nbsp][nbsp][nbsp][nbsp][nbsp]www.HeartisticWishes.com (http://www.HeartisticWishes.com)[nbsp][nbsp]

[Terra]

I wish FQ could grant miracles and just delete AOL! hehehehe, I wish I could!

However, if they want to play games - then fine, I can do the same...

As if it wasn't already bad enough - AOL raised the stakes by kicking back the infamous '550' error...[nbsp][nbsp]Technically, they should specify that this is a 'PERMANENT' error and immediately bounce back to the sender along with their 'Open Relay' message...[nbsp][nbsp]Do they?????[nbsp][nbsp]Heck NO!!![nbsp][nbsp]They send back a temporary failure...

What does that result in?[nbsp][nbsp]Great, I'm glad you asked... ;)

Right now, my outbound queues are ***stuffed*** with deferred AOL.com email deliveries which is causing MAJOR delays with any and all remote delivery...[nbsp][nbsp]That's not very nice of AOL as they are now causing their own DOS within our mail system...

At this point, I am completely beyond livid - but I know if this is not resolved soon then tomorrow our support box will be stuffed with legitimate complaints about slow email delivery regardless if it's caused by AOL or not...

Now you may wonder why I don't just clear the queue by manually bouncing everything to 'aol.com'...[nbsp][nbsp]Well, I got to thinking of a way to tunnel around this and came up with a workable solution...

I've been hacking away for the last few hours to pull this off and have brought one of my Prototype SmartHubs online to dig the other end...[nbsp][nbsp]AOL is blocking 3 IP addresses, but they are NOT blocking all of our IP's...[nbsp][nbsp]I can't just change existing SMTP servers as that will create a larger mess, so what I will do now is trap all deferred 'aol.com' email and reroute to our SmartHub...[nbsp][nbsp]The SmartHub has been given a new ability to walk IP's if it finds any of them getting blocked...[nbsp][nbsp]Have fun AOL keeping up with the slight of hand dynamic shield remodulations...

Let the games begin!

Somebody set up us the bomb!
You are on the way to destruction.
You have no chance to survive make your time.
AOL, all your base are belong to us!

--
Terra
--
if (( ISP == &quot;AOL&quot; )) {
[nbsp][nbsp]alert(&quot;Captain, we have been scanned by a hostile entity!&quot;);
[nbsp][nbsp]alert(&quot;Shields!!![nbsp][nbsp]Arm Photon Torpedoes... FIRE!!!&quot;);
[nbsp][nbsp]destroy_it( );
[nbsp][nbsp]alert(&quot;It won't die Jim!&quot;);
[nbsp][nbsp]teleport_solitaire();
[nbsp][nbsp]alert(&quot;They spend 7.5 hours a day mastering Solitaire, Sorry Jim!!!&quot;);
[nbsp][nbsp]teleport_minesweeper();
[nbsp][nbsp]alert(&quot;Good choice Captain, this will confuse them for ages!!!);
}
--
FutureQuest

[Cindy]

Just to let you know, the tests I sent to an AOL address yesterday finally reached their destination half an hour ago.
Cindy

[Kara]

Mail is going through to AOL on SIX!![nbsp][nbsp]Terra, whatever you did worked :D.[nbsp][nbsp]I was hoping it was all the complaints we all sent, but I doubt it :P.

Kara
[nbsp]- In 2 weeks I will be a NON-AOL member.[nbsp][nbsp]They can kiss my fat arse!

[eunice]

FWIW my aol mail is now going through.[nbsp][nbsp]I think I'm on NINE.[nbsp][nbsp]Thanks for everything Terra....
------------------
--Laurie

[chrisheng]

Things like this are why I host here. :-)

(I mean, of course, FQ's competence and determination
to solve problems. :-)

Chris.

[DB]

Hee hee... WTG, Master Terra. Modulating the shields was brilliant, phasers on stun don't seem to affect them and a photon might have backfired.

------------------
--Tom aka DiamondBack
[nbsp][nbsp]http://diamond-back.com
[nbsp][nbsp]http://smartasses.org

[zmax]

Well, remember that modulating phasers is what works on the Borg. Which is just about what AOL really is! Although the Borg always end up adjusting to phase remodulations. . .

WE ARE AOL!
YOU WILL BE ASSIMILATED!!!
RESISTANCE IS FUTILE!

Seems our email is going through now to AOL.
Thanks!

David
http://www.worldwidecat.com

[Terra]

For the record:

I have still *not* heard any word back from any/all of my emails to them!

Block Removed:
63.95.221.102 :NINE

Block still exists:
63.95.221.101 :SIX
63.94.221.200 :TAZ

All SMTP servers pass the rigorous and demanding Mail-Abuse.org 20 step test - the one that AOL advocates...

--
Terra
--Though beefing up our SMTP servers was a good thing, the insanity behind it all was a circus sideshow at best---
FutureQuest

PS: There was nothing wrong with them to begin with, and AOL's testing reminds me of the braindead AFNIC DNS testing procedures which will deny you .fr domains unless you are running the security plagued BIND server...[nbsp][nbsp]We run DJBDNS, and they (AFNIC) don't like that...[nbsp][nbsp]Gotta love all the little dictators running around on the Internet right now...

PSS: AFNIC Insanity:[nbsp][nbsp]http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=djbdns&amp;m=98347145928275&amp;w=2

PSSS: Being everything to everyone is getting more and more insanely difficult everyday - yet I'm still in the trenches, day after day, fighting the good fight...

[Deb]

PSSSS: We still luv ya :P

[heath]

This is amazing.

If its happening here, its happening all over the place.

I'm still confused by the outcome:

Did AOL remove all the blocks or did whatever Terra do fix the problem?

[Terra]

This is amazing. That is a nice way to put it...[nbsp][nbsp];)

I have a whole slew of various other darker terms that would apply...[nbsp][nbsp]:P

If its happening here, its happening all over the place. I really can't speak much for the other MTA(s), but the way QMail is designed - it would fail on the '%' and '!' tests...[nbsp][nbsp]As explained earlier, it accepts the email - drops in queue - qmail-local checks if local account and if not 'bounce'...

Reason being is that QMail is many separate and non-privileged processes that in essence don't trust one another (by design) - so at acceptance, qmail-local is nowhere to be found for the actual 'local user' test...

I'm still confused by the outcome: Probably not much more than the actual AOL Open Relay team...

Did AOL remove all the blocks or did whatever Terra do fix the problem? Both...

Current update:
a) All blocks have been removed
b) I have *yet* to receive a reply to **any** of my emails
c) I worked around the problem by bringing online a prototype QMail SmartHub that I've been designing

Getting the blocks removed was possible through the combined voice of many ticked off site owners...[nbsp][nbsp]Also, Mr. T.P. was (potentially) very instrumental in having the blocks removed as he works for a company very close to AOL...[nbsp][nbsp](I don't have permission to say exactly who or what company)

In conclusion, I would like to thank everyone that performed a SUSOGI in getting this unfortunate situation remedied...[nbsp][nbsp]The AOL situation could have gotten very ugly, but the level of understanding (and professionalism) was way beyond any and all of our expectations...[nbsp][nbsp]It allowed us to focus on the problem at hand and devise a creative solution around the problem...[nbsp][nbsp]I would much rather focus and devise a solution, then to be embroiled by flames from within the community...

Thanks everyone!

--
Terra
--Comfortably Numb--
FutureQuest

[irategames - Jim]

Sorry to barge in, as I'm still sort of a newbie at all this, by why can't I send mail to my site's virtual news service?[nbsp][nbsp]When I try sending a response to the service I receive:

--------------------------------------------------------
The message could not be sent because one of the recipients was rejected by the server. The rejected e-mail address was 'chgrace%40gte.net@vpo2.virtualpressoffice.com'. Subject 'Re: Latest News from the Virtual Press Office', Account: 'irategames news', Server: 'mail.irategames.com', Protocol: SMTP, Server Response: '555 due to AOL Inc. delivery restrictons, we must now grab our ankles and not allow percent signs in addresses (#5.5.4)', Port: 25, Secure(SSL): No, Server Error: 555, Error Number: 0x800CCC79
--------------------------------------------------------

I understand (and STRONGLY agree) that AOL stinks worse than an unmentionable part of Jabba the Hutt, but isn't it possible to allow for &quot;%&quot; signs in mail addresses not directed at AOL?[nbsp][nbsp]Is it me?[nbsp][nbsp]Am I just doing something wrong and missing something incredibly obvious?

[Deb]

It's not you...it's AOL .. however in this situation we have to make the judgement call ... size of mailing list compared to size of AOL.[nbsp][nbsp]

The demands of the site owners lean toward allowing mail to/from AOL to flow through our servers gracefully and to do that we cannot allow the percent signs lest we end up blocked by their servers :([nbsp][nbsp]To avoid the risk of not being able to have any mail flow through AOL we must hold onto this rule until AOL decides to change (ouch... I'm not holding breath).

Deb
[nbsp]-
[nbsp][nbsp]http://www.militarymacaw.com/snowman.gif

[zmax]

More AOL email problems:

http://digitalmass.boston.com/news/daily/03/031901/earthlink_aol.html