LinkExchange.. I think NOT!

[Deb]

This is just a rant about free banner exchanges and possibly something for those of you supporting link exchange and/or considering it.... mind you: I'm not talking about targeted banner advertising and paid advertising..I'm talking about FREE Major exchanges like Link Exchange...

From what I understand.. Unless you have some stock invested in Link Exchange and or are a family member...the reason you would join something like link exchange would be to generate more traffic to your site via getting your banner to show up on someone else's site..

Now most banner services work on a rating system. You get categorized as to the amount of traffic you generate. If you get 1000 hits you get put into category B and your banner gets put onto 5 sites; 2000 for 10 sites etc. What this means is that in order to receive more traffic, you first have to generate more traffic - by conventional means.

I don't see the logic in this? It doesn't look like they are doing you any favors to me... If the banner experts are correct in the amount of impressions it takes to actually get a click through then for Link Exchange to work for you your site will need to offer another banner ohhhhh I dunno 10,000 viewings before your banner will get a single click through... which to me means you are either already doing great on your own w/o the help of Link Exchange... or you are just a great person helping out others....

At any rate... like I said this is just a rant... For those considering adding things like Link Exchange to your site make sure you read all the rules and fine print first and consider your reasons for wanting to add it.. is it really worth the space on your site?

A better solution for free banner ads may be to look at other sites that are using Link Exchange banners that are targeted toward the same type of audience as you are... then email them a 'reality check' about link exchange and offer them the opportunity to replace there LE Banner with your banner..in turn you will give an equal amount of space on your site for their banner.....

Still free... but now more personal, effective, and targeted http://www.aota.net/ubb//smile.gif

Ahhhh isn't the net a great place http://www.aota.net/ubb//smile.gif

My 50 cents for the day
Deb

[Sandy]

not to mention that Link Exchange is now owned by Microsoft http://www.aota.net/ubb//frown.gif
and their banners load s l o w now...I got rid of them..wasn't worth it.

my 2 cents for the day LOL

[JoeCD]

We're thinking of getting rid of Link Exchange from our sites, just because it doesn't seem worth the trouble at times.
I just checked the stats for one site we signed up last month....

60384 visits to the site, which in return, we got 28686 exposures on other sites, of which, 234 people actually clicked on our banner. The total Click-Thru Rate is 119:1. The stats also say that there's about 4000 unused credits, which leads me to believe they're pushing their paid advertiser banners (and their own banners) more often than members. Correct me if I'm wrong though.

A friend of mine, who writes for some internet mag/newsletter thing in NYC, told me over the summer that these free link exchanges were going to start giving members the shaft, and go for the big paying sites when they switched over to the internet "standard" ad size of 468x60. I'm not surprised. Then again, they need to make money some way. :\

I would suggest SmartClicks, which I've been using on various sites ever since they started back in early 97, but they have actually done worse than Link Exchange lately, with the exact same banner. They've also switched over to the standard banner sizes...

Small banner exchanges and link swaps with similar sites, seem to be the best way to go (again). I hear those Web Rings are also doing pretty good.

(Anyone who can configure a CGI script and has a few hours of free time, can setup their own Link Exchange clone.)

Joe

....who is also wondering what the heck is going on over at Yahoo. It is impossible to get listed there anymore... >:\

[This message has been edited by Joe (edited 11-21-98).]

[Deb]

I definitely agree that the smaller more personal 'link exchanges' are better all the way around. Getting your site on targeted directories is 100% more profitable then on general 'who knows what' directories...

Example: Farm Owner wants to sell their horse and promote their farm

Where will they receive more visitors from?

A: Banner ads on a classical music page (link exchange probability)

B: A link in yahoo (if lucky to have one)

C: A search engine/directory that deals only in agriculture and horse farms.

When you look at it this way... the answer seems pretty obvious. I usually hit up google.stanford.edu and Yahoo doing a search for whatever type of site I am ready to promote.. I go straight for the directories that target my goals.

FutureQuest receives a WHOLE LOT MORE hits from places like HostSearch.com then it does from our listings in Yahoo!!!! It's simple to see why. People surfing hostsearch are wanting to view info about hosting companies. Targeted promotions are always better!

Getting a listing in Yahoo is 90% luck and 10% skill. There is much to pay attention to when trying to get a listing in that directory... what has worked for me is:

1. MAKE SURE my site is optimized for human viewing... yahoo still allows humans to decide if your site deserves the privilege of their attention. By this I mean do not over load and spam your meta tags... make sure your <title> begins with the same title on your page and add NO extra stuff to it...
Make sure the pages load fast and are easy to read etc...

2. When you are ready to submit the site: Try and find the catagory that matches your site with the least amount of listings...

Example: With FutureQuest it was futile for me to try and list it in their "hosting" catagory with the other thousands of hosts... I went a different route.. I went to yahoo get local then into Florida then into Ocala then into computers n internet there were 2 other listings at the time http://www.aota.net/ubb//smile.gif three weeks after submitting FQuest to ONLY that catagory... we got our 'golden letter' telling us we were in yahoo... two weeks after that we showed up in their main hosting catagories, and then a week later they decided to add Florida and the rest of the US states to their regional listings and cleaned up the whole thing http://www.aota.net/ubb//smile.gif

They don't like to add to catagories that already have a billion other listings.. but if you can show them they need to add a new catagory and/or get your site into a catagory that has a small amount of sites listed.. you will have much more luck.

Another GREAT way to get links is to do what you are already doing and that is add a "How To Link To Us" page with some nice buttons and banner options.... FQuest will have a page like that soon *hint hint grin*

Hope this helps
Deb
p.s. I had FutureQuest optimized for robot searches and submitted it there first.. once satisfied with those listings I redid the FQuest site to compensate for the humans at Yahoo, after we got our listing in yahoo I put up the site optimized for robot searches again http://www.aota.net/ubb//wink.gif

[This message has been edited by Deb (edited 11-21-98).]

[JoeCD]

Thanks for the tips Deb. I'll have to try those sometime http://www.aota.net/ubb//smile.gif

One thing I've noticed about Yahoo, is that it's also easier to get in if what you're submitting is hot. For example, if you put up a fan page for a new television show, or celebrity, they'll add you in a week, totally overlooking those who have been waiting to get in for months. Grrr.

I've been looking more into sites like newhoo.com (which Netscape just bought), and bomis.com. Both these sites have human editors for each section, and you can be listed in a day or 2.

I put one of our pages into bomis last month, as a test, and got 350 hits on it in 2 weeks! It's one of those ring type things that groups related pages together. I've been meaning to add more to that thing. Maybe set aside a weekend next month and submit a couple hundred pages http://www.aota.net/ubb//smile.gif

Let me know when you get that "Link to us" page done. I was looking for a FutureQuest button to use the other night. I actually saw one that said something like "We're on a FutureQuest", but can't for the life of me, remember what page it was on!

Joe

[Deb]

Don't forget you also qualify to have your site submitted to ooddles and oooddleess of search engines via your package deal http://www.aota.net/ubb//wink.gif

As for images... hmmm, though it is NOT required by any means whatesoever I have no problem with someone linking to us http://www.aota.net/ubb//smile.gif

Maybe one of these will help you out http://www.aota.net/ubb//smile.gif

http://www.futurequest.net/images/banner/sitequestleft.gif

http://www.futurequest.net/images/banner/sitequestright.gif

http://www.futurequest.net/images/FQuest611.gif

http://www.futurequest.net/images/FQuest116.gif

http://www.futurequest.net/images/banner/futurequest1.gif

Now if the LAST piece of our new server would get here we would be doing ok! I would like to request that everyone either pray or pull out their voodo dolls or say chants or wish luck or whatever it may be that works for you, that UPS pleases all of us by delivering our final package tomorrow...

Deb

[Sandy]

This is a good place to submit a new site to.They send out a weekly newsletter listing all the new sites submitted to them
(not spam-people sign up for the newsletter)
http://www.whatsnu.com/

[Doug]

Deb
Thanks about this info about banners. Ive just started looking into what is needed to promote my web site and I found this info enlightening.

[John]

I just read the entire string and don't see what all the fuss is about....lol. I think I have found the true method of getting web site hits.... Do Nothing. As far as I know, Deb is the only person in the world that even knows of my site and I have gotten over 250 hits in less than a month. Now, Deb is either going there several times a day in her "spare" time or telling Deb that you have a site is the key to success. I can't wait til Deb actually advertises that I have a site. It should be overwhenming....lol.

Having fun,

John

PS Where do all those hits come from? ;-)

[Deb]

ROFL!!!

Well gee, you think we sell that idea?

For only $99.95 we will allow you to mention to Deb that you have a web site! Guaranteed promotional tool!

ehehe I think people may ask too many questions for us to get away with it:P

Susogi.net is heavily promoted and as such does receive a decent amount of hits. Just adding your listing on the Community Page helps... many people enjoy just surfing the sites to add some variety to their day.

I can assure you all those hits are not from me.. I just went over there tonight and WOW you've been busy!!!!!! I take it you've come a long ways since that first over 3mb file that wouldn't show up *grin*

Good job! and those who know me know I love purple http://www.aota.net/ubb//wink.gif

Deb

[uniprosper]

Hi there everyone,

Can I just say that the best promotional source I've found is either E-Zine advertising or posting to multiple FFA (Free-4-all) link sites.

You can check out my site at http://www.uniprosper.com if you wish, because we offer both of these advertising types.

I don't mean to barge in with my advert, I just thought this seemed relavent to the topic. Thanks alot, and Merry Christmas!

Lee.


------------------
=======================
Get FREE promotion &
BOOST TRAFFIC NOW!
http://www.uniprosper.com
=========================

[Deb]

Barge in all you like, that's what the forums are for.

We have some AWESOME sites on this server that are full of kewl tools... Andrew and I keep checking things OFF of our list as the new sites appear hehe... Example: Submission tools and Search Engine status checkers...

Between 123marketing, Webauthorities, uniprosper and a few others.... we have no reason to add them anymore http://www.aota.net/ubb/wink.gif

Deb

------------------
Unlocking the Power of the Internet!
www.FutureQuest.net (http://www.FutureQuest.net)

[DB]

I'm coming into this thread a little late, but after mentioning to Deb that I'm thinking of dropping LinkExchange she sent the URL. Thanks Deb, LE is definitely about to become history on my site.

Much like the lottery, LE seems to be a good deal until you stop and crunch the numbers. First off, your banner only gets one exposure for every two displayed on your site. So just to break even your banner has to be getting double the average number of click thrus of banners being displayed. And what is the point of breaking even if you lose as many visitors as you attract? Besides, you would have to have a pretty impressive banner to be getting double the average clicks. If you are only average then you are losing two visitors for every one you attract. If LE wanted to be honest they would change their slogan to "Drive more traffic AWAY from your site!"

Now let's have some fun with numbers. Since joining LE on 1/7/98 I've given them 1,061,610 exposures, my banners have been displayed 531,198 times and clicked on 2,556 times. That is an overall ratio of 207 to 1, way below average (at least my latest banner is doing a little better). Since my site averages about 3,000 visitors a day, in exchange for giving LE over a million impressions, I've received less than one day's worth of visitors. Woo hoo. Of course there is one stat they don't show you and that is how many people clicked on banners displayed on your site. At this point I'm glad, because I don't think I would be a very happy camper if I knew.

A few months ago I signed-up with a couple ad banner brokers. While the contracts and pay outs vary, you can estimate about $0.0015 for each ad that is displayed on your site. So, if instead of giving LE a million impressions I had substituted a revenue generating banner, I could have earned approximately $1,592. Excuse me for a moment while I go scream obscenities into my pillow. ... Okay, I'm back. Another way to look at it is that I forfeited $1,592 to LOSE visitors. Or looking on the positive side, it only "cost" me about 62 cents for each visitor I attracted... it would have been cheaper to just bought advertising.

Oh well, live and learn. Now I need to go edit a few pages and remove some code. Hey, I wonder how much LinkExchange would pay me not to publish this little math lesson where the next million visitors will be able to see it? ;->

------------------
--Tom aka DiamondBack
http://diamond-back.com