Starting with META tags

[Doug]

I've been reading alot of good stuff about site promotion here. Where I'm at right now is imputting keywords into the pages. (I have already done my 1st page but I am thinking of changing a few things, if anyone would care to view the source at dramaquest.com) I've read some good information supplied by Deb, and have looked at the source of a number of sites at the top of search engines. I would apprecieate any additional thoughts on this before I take the plunge. A few questions I have are:
1. I placed a title at the top of my 1st page but it is recommended that the title also be placed at the top of all the sub=pages as well. I have almost 100 pages and would as soon avoid doing this if it is not necessary.
2. Are Key "phrases" beneficial, even though you already have the individual words listed?
3. In submitting, I am told that some of the information, such as my name can be bogus. Is this desirable?
Thanks for any help you may offer.

[Deb]

Hey Doug,

Very smart to NOT start submitting until you are feeling all your t's are crossed and i's are dotted!

For starters... check out http://www.northernwebs.com/set/setsimjr.html Meta Medic. Scroll all the way to the bottom and you can submit your url... it will grade your Meta Tags for you http://www.aota.net/ubb//wink.gif

It would be VERY helpful to your search engine positions if you add a title to all of your pages! Even more so... make it a specific title for each page.. the title contains the single most important keywords for search engines and as such by putting slightly different titles on each page you effectively and 'legally' squeeze in a whole lot more keywords then you could using the same title... It's a pain.. but worth it.

I recommend the same for your keyword and description meta tags.. using a different set for every page -- ahhh the pain, the agony... but the rewards are worth it!

ALWAYS use all four on every page.... TITLE and META TITLE and META DESCRIPTION and META KEYWORDS!!!

As far as using your real or false name.. it depends on what type of site you are running and to which engines you are submitting to. Using an obviously bogus name for place like YAHOO will put you on their ignore list quick.. as they "pride themselves in quality sites only" For free4all links pages it doesn't really matter simply because they are most likely going to sell your name to marketers anyway.

If you openly give your real information on your site.. then you my as well give it when you submit your site. If keeping that information out of the general publics way is important then by all means create yourself a pseudo name and use it consitently on the Internet.

Hope this helps
Deb

[Doug]

WOW! I can't believe how fast your reply was!
I hope you don't think I'm being too personal, but are you chained to your computer desk?
Just kidding.
Thanks for all your valuable help, Deb.

[Deb]

HAHA!!

Well actually it's not so bad... we use soft cotten pads to cushion the chains... so at times they work well for pillows *grin*

Deb

[MikeA]

Here are a few suggestions that I'll give.

1) Avoid using AND. This is a STOP word for most Search Engines. Use a comma or use OR. "Here at widgets we design boats or cars or planes or trains or we can also plan your website for you." May not sound grammatically correct, but your typical engine isn't looking for proper english.
2) Describe your site, not your business.
3) Pick 6 or 8 keywords and duplicate them throught your site. Include these words in the title and description
4) Try to avoid picking more than about 12 keywords. Some search engines will ignore all keywords if you have more than a certain number.
5) Make sure the META tags are in place BEFORE you register your site. Some engines will index in a few hours (6 to 12).
6) If you have pictures, be sure to use the ALT tags and stick your keywords in there.

Well, there's my 2 cents worth. http://www.aota.net/ubb/smile.gif

[Doug]

Thanks, Mike, you offered a couple of suggestions that I haven't heard before.

[auteur]

Here's some Ps and Qs about Search Engine Visibility:

1st and most important, don't drive yourself insane trying to be in the top 10 on every single search engine with every single keyword. You'll do just that drive yourself crazy. [Of course, since that is my function at CBS Sportsline, I won't be passing that along to my employer http://www.aota.net/ubb/smile.gif ].

Tips for prepping the page for search engines.

1. Choose which keywords you are using as your main focus words. Many, if like me, will find this difficult after the 3rd or fourth on my own pages. Since your so close to the project. Here's a tool that will help you:
a. Go to http://www.goto.com
b. Click on "Get Listed on GoTo"
c. Under "2. GoTo.com Client Toolbox" and click on "Search Term Suggestion List"

In this box type in the keywords you find appropriate for your site. It will then show you how many times it was used in a search during Sept. 98. Don't worry if the numbers seem a little low. Goto.com is a new search engine, the numbers will be much higher on the more popular engines. It's a great help.

2. Title and Description tags: As already posted, list each page's title tag as approprate to that pages content. Just make sure to use your main keywords within in the tags.

3. As for the text not being grammatically correct, you may want to rethink that. There are some engines that use the tags, Description especially, for your site's listing. But, as posted above, learn the "Stop" words. These can include "web" "internet" "the". Be creative in your tags and remember they are still viewed in most of the browsers.

4.Keyword tag: A rule of thumb is to use 300 characters for keywords. There are many websites that hardly use their keyword tags to their fullest potential. Search engines don't punish you for using 300 keywords, they punish you for misusing this tag. Most simply ignore the amount larger than their limit.

For example, Lycos accepts up to 1024 characters but Webcrawler uses the first 250 of the entire page. Webcrawler wouldn't recognize that over 250.

5. To not spam. Make sure not to repeat the keywords more than three times in any given tag. Don't use words that don't relate to your page. Don't use hidden keywords on the page.

6. Comment tags: look like this <!-- -->. They are usually used for organizing the html code, but are also used by search engines when indexing the site. Use keywords here.

7. Alt tags: As mentioned above, use them anywhere there is a graphic. Even if you use have a banner for a sponsor, use the alt tags to your advantage. For example, if you have a terrific *wink wink* banner for FutureQuest on your Winget Software site...use the following alt tag "Winget Software presents FutureQuest webhosting."

8. If you're domain name utilizes your keywords, ie www.wingetsoftware.com, use your full url when linking. That goes for site branding to. This mostly helps with Excite.

9. If your domain name does not, then use directories that do. For example, I have a marketing domain name but I have a site on that domain called Celebrate Life - A Website for the Living. Both "celebrate" and "life" are commonly used to get to my site. So my site's url is http://www.123marketing.com/celebratelife/ .
All my links use this full address not only to get to the correct link, but for better use of my keywords. On my marketing content only site, I doubled up the keyword "marketing" by using 123marketing.com/marketing/ .

Well, I've written a book now. I hope this isn't too long for the forum.

And it's hi ho hi ho
back to work I go.

Elizabeth

[Doug]

Thank you, Elizabeth for your advice. You should write a book about this. I can see that I have my work cut out for me.

[alexandra]

I've read all the comments about Meta tags with great interest; they're certainly very helpful, especially Elizabeth's "book." I was especially greatful for your comment about having keywords in the site's title. It explains to me why we've turned up in Excite as the Number 2 site in ballet (I'm www.balletalert.com) -- when I've read they don't look at Meta tags! We've yet to turn up with any real presence except in Excite (and AOL Netfind, which I've read is powered by Excite) although I've submitted the site twice since we were up in late July. The one place that did list us, instantly, was Infoseek, which obviously took the first few words at the time, which were "This site uses frames and your browser doesn't," something that the people who designed my original site had neglected to tell us was a factor. (I killed the frames instantly, but that still stands as the description of our site.)
I used Website Garage -- don't have the URL; I get to it through a bizarre way, through the Mining Exchange HTML page back features. They have a section on site promotion, but they keep you inside Mining Company so you can't see the URL. Anyway, Website Garage will check your site, for free, and I fiddled around with the Meta tags, not having the slightest idea what I was doing, until I got an "excellent" from them.
I have noticed, in my field, that most of the sites that turn up in the top ten are ancient; some defunct, some extremely minor players (a very small civic ballet company) or a relatively unimportant page from a major site. When we finally made it into the top ten of AOL Netfind, it was with the "Bulletins" page. Why?

I've also been told that one's position in search engines has as much to do with how many other sites link to yours as with the Meta tags. Again, they are slow in recognizing this. At least a dozen sites we know of, including four of the five most important ones in our field link to us, and have for nearly three months, yet when I run a check through "Find out how many sites link to you" it comes up 0 or 1.

So even if you do it right (or nearly right; I'm sure I've missed something) you can't be sure it will work.

I've also been told it takes a great deal of time.

alexandra

[alexandra]

Dear Elizabeth,

Thanks very much. You've solved many of my current Mysteries of Life questions! That was such a helpful answer.

I'm not obsessing over search engines, but we get 50 people a day from Excite, and so it would be ever so nice to get 50 or so from one or two others. I won't rewrite pages to try to get into search engines, though, although I can see the value of that for other kinds of sites.

Thanks again. Whenever I break free of a window by right clicking (didn't know that one), I'll think of you.

alexandra

[auteur]

I had a webmaster send me a list of sites that were in the top ten with the question, "How did they get there with little to no meta tags?". You've probably heard many people say that there isn't an explanation it's just the algorithems of the engine. Actually that is incorrect. It is NOT a "freak of nature" that a site gets to the top.

Frames sites can use the no frames tag and plug in keywords for top ranking <NO FRAMES>keywords here</NO FRAMES> and the only people to see the text are those with browsers that don't support frames. So you use complete sentences with correct grammer, for them.

Remember length of page compared to the number of times a keyword has been used is a criteria for getting results to a search. So, for example, if a page is only 468 pixels
[average height for browser window viewing] long with the word "ballet" used 4 times and your site is maybe 868 pixels with the word used 6 times...their percentage maybe higher depending on the amount of text on the page.

Infoseek is the fastest search engine for getting listed. It used to be that you could be listed within hours, but now they are within a day. Still much better than everyone else. It takes up to 6 weeks to get listed on most search engines and even more for the big list engine, Yahoo!.

As for the deadlinks ahead of you, kick them out of your way. Resubmit them to the engine. The 404 message will be a red flag for the engine and the site will be deleted from the database.

Web Garage and Site Inspector are great services. I use Web Position for visibility checks for my company and I offer checks for my clients.

Web Garage is http://www.WebSiteGarage.com/
Site Inspector is http://siteinspector.linkexchange.com/

For Mining Co. just break out of the frame by clicking your right mouse button and clicking on "Open Frame in New Window". That way you can see the urls you want. Helps for bookmarking too. http://www.aota.net/ubb/smile.gif

>I have noticed, in my field, that most of >the sites that turn up in the top ten are
>ancient; some defunct, some extremely minor >players (a very small civic ballet >company) or a relatively unimportant page >from a major site. When we finally made it
>into the top ten of AOL Netfind, it was with >the "Bulletins" page. Why?

Because the search engines don't look at how important the site is in the industry or field they represent.

Each search engine looks for different points or parts of sites in their database that cab prove to be an accurate representation of what a person has keyed to search. Some look only on your page, others incorporate behind the scenes as well as on the page. Depending on the search engine, your "Bulletins" page hit more of the engines criteria for that particular search than the rest.

Getting your site listed on other pages will give you a look of "expert" status with the search engines. More people list your site, therefore you must be closer to the desired results than someone with less. Alta Vista is one of the main ones for this type of indexing. Though, they just updated their engine and are changing their formula.

It's good to get listed on as many sites for good marketing anyways. So it's a win-win situation and definitely not a waste of time.

>So even if you do it right (or nearly right; >I'm sure I've missed something) you can't be
>sure it will work.

It's not something I'd frustrate over. I learned a long time ago that in life and in search engine listing...if you keep with what you know the rest will all fall into place. And get an expert to do the rest...so I can concentrate on what I do know. *Big Smile*