Now that...

[Bi4Be]

Now that we got the HTML Editors and Coding by Hand isssue behind us (hopefully), I have really gotten into design as I found out how much money you can make :D.

I bagged my first client for a cheap price at unearthly values. But what the hay, as long as I get my first client to be able to start my business up (buy domain names and all) plus advertise.

Anyways, I was wondering as to how you bill the client... before designing or after?

That and I was wondering about how many clients you get monthly? Do you guys get inquiries often or rarely?

Thanks,
[nbsp][nbsp][nbsp][nbsp] -Bi4Be
Newbie at Paid Web Design

[Deb]

I'm sure everyone is a bit different.... and the only input I have is from before FutureQuest was started... soooo take it as old news .. the Net changes too fast :)

Anyway... for me:

If it was a contracted type deal where I continued to keep the pages updated and growing etc the client paid at the beginning of each month for that months work.

If it was a one time deal -- design the site and begone with you.... then I required half of the estimated fee up front with the remainder being due when the job was completed.

As far as being busy -- I found out the hard way that, what I thought were simple tasks when I started, could turn out to take forever while the client decided what they liked and didn't like and changed their minds etc... so it's important to make sure you have priced and allocated enough time for each job which is a task in itself.

Within the first six months I was turning down employment offers because of time... so if you are making the clients happy and your price is right -- getting business is not usually too hard at all after those first couple.[nbsp][nbsp]There seems to be enough to go around and at all skill levels :)

Deb
p.s. I learned a LOT about contracts and more by visiting http://www.wilsoninet.com/ and digging in
[This message has been edited by Deb (edited 05-09-99)]

[Justin]

I think this depends on whether it is hand coded or - oh, wait, nevermind :)

[Bi4Be]

LOL! :D

And if any of you care to know I use both. The editors can do some nice touches once you edit their HTML output for 15 minutes. :) (OK, thats enough about Hard Coding/Editors in this forum! LOL)

Thanks... anyone else have any info/tips?

Do you guys know of any good advertising spots for webdesign?
I actually came up with a good idea: just going back to basics! Like taking up a classified in the local newspaper... you get lots of small businesses calling you and get a localized presence. Only problem is that you get a bunch of un-net savvy customers who you will likely need to do a bit of teaching and/or explaining.

-Bi4Be

[ChrisG]

Okay - I am going to let you in on a serious web design secret.
There are two kinds of website design - High end and Low End.
If you are going to attempt the high end companies then you need money and god on your side.
We are talking clients who want 50 to unlimited pages within their website.
The technology needed is usually Macromedia Flash/Director, JAVA, Database etc etc.
These are usually major brand Companies - the gains you can make from one contract are HUGE - $50,000 Plus per contract.
On the down side though, you usually have to have someone who can deal with these companies who acts as a liason, you can expect the designs to be thrown back at you regularly, and as for getting the contract and recieving payment for the contract, dont expect them any time soon - try 1 month through to in some extreme cases a year! One of the companies I work for signed up a company in August Last year and I have just got the first proof out today!

The flip side of the coin is the smaller websites. As you said they are somewhat of a pain the proverbial to deal with, however trust me when I say that they are not that bad!

There is a sub side to this though. In the UK at the moment a few design companies have twigged on to the principle of localise or specialist content

*looks out the window and HUGE Thunderstorm brewing*

My site, the VolksZone is one such Web site.
I offer specialist content for the public, and design services to the people within that industry.

In addition your localise design idea has already been done.

NewsQuest has been pioneering that idea for over a year now. Local news, content etc with a design service bolted on to the back end. That is in the UK only though.

*wow! that was one short storm!*

If you have any questions about this kind of thing - drop me an e-mail. I am always willing to share.

[Bi4Be]

I mutilated this ditto msg... same one as below. (I pressed the Submit button twice)
[This message has been edited by Bi4Be (edited 05-11-99)]

[Bi4Be]

Thanks for the tips Chris... :)

I am definately on the low end... like $400-$500 jobs at least twice a month. But one of the "mindless little idiots, sat in the bedrooms with Frontpage producing websites which looked like they had been put through a meat grinder" I am not. :D

If you want some disgust, go check out ProPromo.net. They have FrontPage design, charging $500 for one page! :(

Actually, I wasn't thinking of localizing the whole thing...[nbsp][nbsp]just advertising locally, but the idea seems a bit interesting to me.

Anyone else? (Come on people! Share the wealth, we are not gonna steal some big idea... I know it's not my style at least! Share the wealth! lol! :D )

-Bi4Be
[This message has been edited by Bi4Be (edited 05-11-99)]

[ellman]

How do you guys pre-determine what the front money of the site will be? I'm having a hard time w/ this. do you simply charge $X for the first page & $X for each additional page & work out problems as they come or what? btw. you guys have helped a lot.
------------------
Elliott Omlin
NSX Northwest
www.nsxnorthwest.com

[Jacob Stetser]

I've usually seen 50% up front and 50% due on delivery, but it's flexible. If you're just starting out, you might do a flat deposit (say 10% of your average fee) with the rest due on completion.

Another entirely different way of doing things is hourly, and billing by the week or month. I don't recommend this, as companies like to be able to budget specific amounts for a job, and unless you're really good about judging your time, you'll probably end up going over.

We've got one trusted client whom we'll be billing at the end, and another traded with us for a specific entire amount several months before we're slated to begin work. New clients, however, we generally go 50/50.

{edit}
I misunderstood your question at first.. as for estimating cost, it's best to start somewhere between what you can live on and what you would like. I've found that to be $35-$50 per hour for straight HTML coding, and $60-$100 an hour for programming.

The next step is to figure out how long it normally takes you to work up a page, multiply that by how many projected pages there will be, multiply that by your hourly rate. Throw in some paprika, and adjust if necessary to fit client's needs.

It's a process that takes some work to get used to, since it's hard to estimate your time when you haven't been doing it for a while.

Good luck!

Jake
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http://icongarden.com/?fq[nbsp][nbsp]
icongarden: making good ideas grow.

[This message has been edited by Jacob Stetser (edited 05-25-99)]

[Phoenix]

I do the standard 50% down, 50% upon completion.[nbsp][nbsp]Jobs are coming in pretty regularly now..but the interesting part is that most of it's local AND it's hard copy advertising design.[nbsp][nbsp]Who would've ever thunk it![nbsp][nbsp]Word of mouth has landed me a number of referrals.[nbsp][nbsp]One big project in the works...a site for my kids elementary school.[nbsp][nbsp]Considering I've only been "officially" in business for about 2 months, I'm really pleased with how it's going!
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I keep wondering if it's illegal to have this much fun doing "work."[nbsp][nbsp]

[ellman]

that helps we are just starting up and already have a client. we are taking a 30% now 70% upon completion. that way we are covered for initial cost of setting up space etc. and they don't pay for half of something that might end-up sucking(which would never happen of course) I'm only 16 and have so far 3 real site's under my belt. they are http://www.nsxnorthwest.com NSX Northwest- this one I keep up as a hobby now but was getting paid for it.
http://www.nsxca.com/nsxca NSX Club of America
and http://www.nsxnorthwest.com/fpa if anyone cares to check out my stuff. I hate to bring up such a "hot" subject but I did do all coding myself. infact I have never own, tried, even seen a WYSIWYG HTML program. I just look at a lot of sources and figure things out for myself. but that's enough of that subject. thanks again for your help and input. I love these boards!
------------------
Elliott Omlin
NSX Northwest
www.nsxnorthwest.com (http://www.nsxnorthwest.com)


Hey I just gained "Member" status!

[This message has been edited by ellman (edited 05-26-99)]

[Bi4Be]

Thanks all, that was great... and that helped me out Jacob. ;)

Just a pointer all of you guys probably already know, but just incase (cuz I learned the hard way):
Make sure the client knows what they are paying for! Sometimes you'll do the job and they'll want you to add 2-3 more pages, one particular client of mine didn't quite understand and sent me tons of things to do! But I did'em anyways, because it's partially my fault and + I try to be nice. :D Ehh well, what's another few hours? *nice long sigh*

Have a nice day!
-Bi4Be