Is Ultimate Bulletin Board Good?

[Steve]

Hello,

I'm very close to moving my website (Children's Past Lives) to FutureQuest for a number of reasons, but the main reason is to install Ultimate Bulletin Board on my website.[nbsp][nbsp]A discussion forum is the heart of my website, and I'm very unhappy with the amateur software I'm using now.

I'd like to ask if people here are satisfied with Ultimate Bulletin Board, and if there's anything I should know before spending time and money installing it.[nbsp][nbsp]I've checked out the user interface on about a half dozen installed sites, including Warner Brothers and Blue Note and of course here at FutureQuest, and I'm convinced that the format is suited to my needs.[nbsp][nbsp]I'd like to know if it's stable, easy to modify and fix, is it a memory hog, and how good is the support if I have a problem?[nbsp][nbsp]I know very little about CGI or Perl, but I do know how to follow directions and ask for help.[nbsp][nbsp]:-)

Are there any other packages I should look at before I make my final decision?

Thanks,

Steve


------------------
Steve Bowman[nbsp][nbsp]*********
www.childpastlives.org (http://www.childpastlives.org)
www.bizwriting.com (http://www.bizwriting.com)[nbsp][nbsp]***

[Deb]

Hi Steve,

If you search the forums for UBB you will find quite a few opinions about it ...

The majority seem to be:

1. Love the interface!
2. Visitors to the site seem to enjoy it!
3. The code is HORRID
4. It is updated way to often making it difficult to work with
5. With every update comes more bugs and problems so be prepared to install the fixes
6. They have a great support forum where you can always get help..
7. Hosts hate the ubb due to the excessive load it puts on the servers..
8. Ted really needs to rewrite the code and save the interface so we all may enjoy the best of both worlds :)

All in all it's a great forum -- one of the best by far..but as with everything.. it needs work and it would do Ted a lot of good to put a hault on new features and take some time to clean up the ones he already has.

Many have also recommended some other comparable scripts on these forums that are free... I just can't remember which ones they were offhand :( surf around and they'll pop up :)

Deb

[DKG]

I am using Discus.
Their home page is:
http://www.chem.hope.edu/discus/
Where you will find a working demo which they use for support. It is VERY adaptable/customizable interface (Mine is at http://www.goldtalk.com if you want to take a look - compare it to the default version on their site)
I searched long and hard for months, read reviews, saw the debates, asked other webmasters. And I am very happy with my decision.[nbsp][nbsp]If you do a search in here (FutureQuest's forum) for Discus, you will find a few excellent posts weighing its merits against UBB.[nbsp][nbsp]

Most notable:
It is Free! (Frankly, I think they should charge at least *something*.)
And unlike the free version of UBB, it is not crippled in any way. You get a few extra functions if you purchase the Pro version (much cheaper than UBB), but most people don't need them. The guys there are so nice, they even help those who don't buy the pro version to modify the program, giving it similar functions.[nbsp][nbsp]E.G. they gave us a script with instructions to allow a user self-registration function.
It (FREE version) comes with:
E-mail notification
ability for users to set preferences
full search & filters
supports cookies
preview and editing of posts,
file attachments,
formatting tags come built in, and you can add all you want,
Frames or no-frames format.
administrators or moderators can create open forums, or require registration, move, edit, prune, archive posts.[nbsp][nbsp]Tons of stuff, and so easily done.
Discus is missing some features UBB has, but I don't know what they are, and don't miss them.[nbsp][nbsp]They are both missing some features I do miss, and most are planned for the next version.
The updates are regular and reasonable (last one was ~6 months ago I think, another's coming next month.& the process is built into the software's[nbsp][nbsp]"upgrade" function.)[nbsp][nbsp]I have never had a bug, or read of one.[nbsp][nbsp]It is nicer to the server than UBB. And the discus guys are not arrogant, if I may be so bold.[nbsp][nbsp](UBB has a reputation, not to mention the fact that their pricing is laughable.) Frankly, I chose Discus for the same reason I chose FutureQuest.[nbsp][nbsp]Yes, a few other servers offer a few extra bells and whistles which, to me, aren't that important, although the better ones are planned. The price is great, and the people are even better.

Just found a great breakdown of features on the Discus site.
it's at:
http://www.chem.hope.edu/~discus/home2/compet-pro.html
It lists the features of the leading forum software:
Discus 3.0, Discus 3.0 Pro, Web Crossing, Web Board, Ultimate Bulletin Board, and WWW Board. Hope it helps! :)
(Sorry, still working on those smileys!)
[This message has been edited by DKG (edited 05-16-99)]

[Bi4Be]

Steve, UBB is well worth it. Only scipt I have seen that comes close to int's friendly interface which visitors know and love is UltraBoard www.ultrascripts.com (http://www.ultrascripts.com) although it's site is badly neglected and hasn't been updated with FAQ, DEMO, or MANUAL for the UB script. But then again it is free.

-Bi4Be[nbsp]
[This message has been edited by Bi4Be (edited 05-16-99)]

[Del]

Another nice one is WWWThreads ( www.wwwthreads.org (http://www.wwwthreads.org) ) The killer one requires MySQL, but there is a slightly older version available that just uses regular databases (tied hash style).

Del

[Steve]

Thanks all for your suggestions.[nbsp][nbsp]I'm checking them out.

I went to the UltraBoard website and nobody was home.[nbsp][nbsp]Nothing worked, including the demo.[nbsp][nbsp]No matter how cool it is, I can't afford to go with a package with nothing behind it.

wwwthreads.com was a little better, and it does seem to have a cool interface.[nbsp][nbsp]But again, I got the feeling that there aren't many people involved with it.[nbsp][nbsp]The support forum had very little traffic.[nbsp][nbsp]Also, I don't like having to click and request a new http page in order to read each message, or scroll down the message list.[nbsp][nbsp]And it lacked the redundant navigation features of UBB.[nbsp][nbsp]I'm willing to pay extra for a board that is very easy to use because my audience is almost all non-computer types who are easily intimidated and lost by unfriendly screens.

I'm still giving a hard look at Discus.

I would like to say that the quick response I got to my question clinched my decision to sign up with FutureQuest.[nbsp][nbsp]I feel I will get the support I need to both get my website and BBS humming, and to venture out into new communication features to make my site even more useful for my audience.

I'm still leaning towards UBB. . .

Steve
------------------
Steve Bowman[nbsp][nbsp]
www.childpastlives.org (http://www.childpastlives.org)
www.bizwriting.com (http://www.bizwriting.com)[nbsp][nbsp]
[This message has been edited by Steve (edited 05-16-99)]

[Justin]

WWWThreads can be viewed in either threaded mode (like most forum scripts) or linear (like the UBB). It's user selectable - just click on 'Flat Mode'. For one of my sites I seriously considered using it, and even set it up and customized it, but in the end I chose the UBB... not sure why, but I just like it better.

The only thing that made me want to use WWWThreads was the private messages, where registered users can message eachother privately (and viewing my banners the whole time hehe) - but I managed to add the feature to the UBB :)

With WWWThreads you can select the default mode (flat or threaded), and users can choose whichever they're more comfortable with - and they can choose their font, etc - it's actually pretty nice feature wise, but the UBB has a more familiar interface...

I personally never liked Discuss, and I really don't know why, but I don't. I guess it's just a matter of preference.

------------------
Justin Nelson
FutureQuest Support

[Del]

Steve,

Check out www.wwwthreads.org (http://www.wwwthreads.org) instead. The .org is the actual distribution site, .com is a board-hosting service that uses wwwthreads. The demo/support board at .org is usually hopping :)

The threaded/linear option is (I think) only available in the MySQL version. If you don't have at least a Gold package on FQ, you'll need the regular DB version, which doesn't have as many options.

I too don't care for Discus much. It's interface isn't very configurable (at least not easily, whenever I tried editing the html template something somewhere broke, fix that, something else broke, etc...). I've also heard it's an even bigger resource hog than UBB. At least they finally made the frames interface optional.

Del
I wish I were an Oscar Mayer weiner,
that is what I'd really like to be...

[Jacob Stetser]

Just a quick note about the way the wwwthreads bulletin board is setup on their page- they use the threaded setting as default for the board, but you CAN set it to flat, which is the way the UBB is set up. In fact, a few other settings changed and it looks quite a lot like the UBB.

Plus people can set their own default font faces and font size (great for people with bad vision!), get and send Private Messages (something which only recently appeared in UBB, and I'm not sure if that's only in Justin's version or not? ;) )

And then there's a setting to subscribe to threads (woohoo!) and to get emailed when someone posts privately to you and when someone replies to your message...

And it's free.

And it's open- the code is GPLed which means that you can take it, modify it and redistribute it. Try redistributing your changes with UBB! ;)

I could go on, but when I looked at wwwthreads a mere month ago, I really wasn't impressed. I took another look a week ago and I know what my bulletin board of choice will be.

(I am going to change those background colors, tho- something that is a leeetle harder to do in WWWthreads than UBB :)



------------------
icongarden.com/?fq (http://icongarden.com/?fq)
icongarden: making good ideas grow.

[Justin]

and I'm not sure if that's only in Justin's version or not?hehe :)[nbsp][nbsp]Actually, it's been there for years - you just have to turn the feature on.[nbsp][nbsp]It's really easy, too - you simply add about 30k of code and bam - there it is :)

Too bad I can't distribute that (although it's nice having something nobody else has hehe :D )

Justin

[DKG]

Del:
You said: "It's interface isn't very configurable (at least not easily, whenever I tried editing the html template something somewhere broke, fix that, something else broke, etc...)."
[nbsp]
I'm really not meaning to be testy or argumentative, OK? :)
But to say the interface isn't very configurable just isn't fair.[nbsp][nbsp]I have seen many sites (including my own) in which the interface has been adapted to look almost identical to the rest of the site (for better or worse Haha!).[nbsp][nbsp]I can't imagine what broke, maybe it was an earlier version? The only time I see people having problems is when they try to edit the template using a WYSIWYG editor, or upload in binary.[nbsp][nbsp]
All they are are templates.[nbsp][nbsp]There are a few lines of code that call the various objects.[nbsp][nbsp]You can very easily put them in tables, re-arrange them, even add SSIs![nbsp][nbsp](With which the possibilities are endless.)[nbsp][nbsp]And it is just simple html.[nbsp][nbsp]
Frankly, it was one of my biggest attractions.[nbsp][nbsp]
Here are just a few of the other implementations:
http://compguystechweb.com/
http://www.masny.com/board/
http://www.ucc.org/discus/
http://capecodtoday.com/discus/messages/board-topics.html
[nbsp]
I don't like frames either, btw :)

As far as being a even bigger resource hog than UBB, that would be contrary to *everything* I have read or heard.[nbsp][nbsp]I would love to hear what Terra has to say.

I completely understand someone's chosing UBB over Discus.[nbsp][nbsp]We all have different tastes,[nbsp][nbsp]I like the UBB interface as much as Discus - better, in fact than discus in frames and poorly modified.[nbsp][nbsp]I don't see the difference, actually when frames are removed.[nbsp][nbsp]In fact, there's a script that will give the alternating colors for messages if one really wanted them.[nbsp][nbsp]The next version is expected to be even more configurable - automagically. ;D
It just really bothered me to see the arrogance of the UBB guys. :-P[nbsp][nbsp]Speciically, their claiming to offer a "free" version. It is so crippled, I think it's disingenuous to offer it.[nbsp][nbsp]And they can be VERY rude to people.[nbsp][nbsp]I was seriously considering UBB when I found Discus, and when I saw their free version, and their attitudes, I was amazed at the disparity.[nbsp][nbsp]The pro version of discus has everything UBB has and more from the admin perspective. I will probably be buying it next month.[nbsp][nbsp]I just get the idea that UBB is more familiar, or that perhaps the features Discuss offers aren't really known.[nbsp][nbsp]That's why I offered those links.
Anyway :-) Gosh, I sound like I have an investment in them. I don't.[nbsp][nbsp]I just love sticking up for the underdogs. <g>

Arggh, I keep putting noses on my smileys!
[This message has been edited by DKG (edited 05-17-99)]

[Del]

DKG,

Admitedly (sp?) it's been a while since I did much tweaking with Discus. Just to be clear tho, I don't use a wysiwyg editor :) When I did tweak it, I tried things like setting table background colors in part of it, which broke the table bgcolor elsewhere. Moved a bit of it over here, worked fine on everything until a new post was made, then the old posts were fine but the new one was broken. Things like that... It's quite possible it's been easier'ed, or maybe I just didn't have enough patience when I was playing with it (most likely the latter, my patience is minimal).

Andrew spaketh thusly;

I have also been watching discuss run, and they are *HIGH* load scripts, many times worse than the UBB's...

(in thread http://www.aota.net/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000178.html )

I have to agree that the freeware UBB is borderline a waste of webspace. Almost insulting even, I'd rather run Matt's WWWBoard.

Del
(I think the only reason I have a UBB is cause I was in a manic, money blowing mood at the time)(pretty sure Julie will back me up on that theory hehehe)

[Terra]

Both the UBB and Discus exhibit the same HIGH load situation in the area of searching...

With Discus: board-newmessages.cgi
With UBB: search.cgi

Discus is the worst in it's searching (memory/cpu) as I've watched it run realtime...[nbsp][nbsp]The UBB isn't too far behind, but is slowly getting more optimal...

Both of the authors need to take a **serious** look at their searching routines...

Ummmm Ted - you need to toss everything you've written and start over from scratch cause the UBB code is getting uglier and more repetitive...[nbsp][nbsp]I can see why more and more hosts are banning your UBB script, which is sad because the top side looks and functions great, but the core code is a nightmare...

I have tried to allocate enough memory for these scripts to run - but at times 'enough is enough' and it becomes the site owner's responsibilty to trim down the large amount of messages...

And yes, I cringe everytime I see Discus's board-newmessages.cgi fire off, wondering if it will keep within the limits imposed by the server...[nbsp][nbsp]Also the posts.cgi routine of Discus is surprisingly high on resources, but not as bad as the searching...

My recommendation for revamping the searches is to start using the DB, or possibly DBM library, and building high-speed search hashes instead of text file scanning...

Current Limits:
CPU: 20 seconds runtime (pure cpu time)
Memory: 15M[nbsp][nbsp]<--yes, this was raised from 10M

--
Terra
--constructive criticism from the server level--
FutureQuest

[Justin]

Would the UBB's search be better if you could reduce the index file to about a quarter it's size? I did this on mine by eliminating most of the common words I could think of before writing to the index, as well as any special characters (hint: search for the word &quot;the&quot; on this UBB :) )

It reduced the file by quite a bit, although admitedly it wasn't all that huge to begin with... but on a larger board I think this would speed up searches by a lot.

The only drawback of course is the extra overhead when creating the index on a larger board - I'm working on that though (Ted needs to put a cycle rate on that part like he did for the update threads).

Justin

[Deb]

Ahhh please do not search for the word &quot;the&quot; or anything like that on this forum.

Justin... we talked about it.. and I do want that in place on this forum.. but you have not got it in place... ergo if they search for the word &quot;the&quot; it's going to return over 500 matches :þ

Deb

[Steve]

I've been following closely this discussion I started on UBB vs. Discus, and now I'm totally confused.

Maybe a few pointed questions will help me.[nbsp][nbsp]What would you pros suggest if I said that I don't intend to tweak the code (because I have no knowledge of programming), I'm convinced I want flat as opposed to threaded, and the ease of use for the user is top priority -- because my users tend to be computer and web neophytes?[nbsp][nbsp]I still prefer the look of UBB, though the extra features of Discus are tempting.[nbsp][nbsp]Should I go ahead with UBB?[nbsp][nbsp]Also, I don't intend to make a lot of changes once I get things running and stable.

Another little feature that I think is very important:[nbsp][nbsp]showing the number of posts for a category or thread.[nbsp][nbsp]UBB does it; can Discus do it too?[nbsp][nbsp]I think it makes a big difference to a casual browser of the forum (which much of my audience will be) to be able to see at a glance where the activity is.

Another question:[nbsp][nbsp]how do the two compare on old browsers or slow connections.[nbsp][nbsp]Can both be configured without frames?[nbsp][nbsp]Again, my audience is unsophisticated, so I have to design for clunky computers and browsers.

Thank you all for your guidance and advice.

P.S. How do you do those cute smileys?
------------------
Steve Bowman[nbsp][nbsp]
www.childpastlives.org (http://www.childpastlives.org)
www.bizwriting.com (http://www.bizwriting.com)[nbsp][nbsp]
[This message has been edited by Steve (edited 05-17-99)]

[Mandi]

I would be happy to ditch the search feature of my board - I trim my threads at a max of about 10 day anyway . . yet my index is enormous.[nbsp][nbsp]Some hints on how one excludes certain words, Justin?[nbsp][nbsp]Thanks . . .[nbsp]

[flowersource]

I had some concerns regarding viewer acceptance of the UBB a while back when I was converting from a funky looking threaded bulletin board to the UBB.

I bought it, begged, pleaded and aggravated people to install it for me. Got it up and running...and no one is using it, 0, nada, none. I have about 900 links ;) to it throughout the site...the viewers now send me a constant barrage of dumb questions via e-mail instead of posting them in the UBB. They don't mention the UBB, they just ignore it, and I do track the clicks to that page, they are looking at it and leaving.

I feel that my audience is not sophisticated enough to register and navigate it. Even though I feel strongly that UBB is the way to go, I probably will disable it this week and reinstall a funky looking, threaded, anybody-can-use-it un-moderated BB.

I coulda bought something useful like Marlboros or http://www.heineken.com/[/url with that $67 that I sent to Ted :D

Mike

[DKG]

Great conversation :)
My question is this: considering the fact that &quot;community&quot; is such a huge focus these days, why aren't there any really good forum software programs?[nbsp][nbsp]My favorite is Web Crossing.[nbsp][nbsp]But no way can I afford nearly a thousand dollars for a site that will never be more than a money hole anyway. :þ
Soooo...
I just got my php Core Programming Book. :D[nbsp][nbsp]I know you, Terra &amp; Deb, are into it as well.[nbsp][nbsp]It looks like we all want[nbsp][nbsp]the same style &amp; features...What are the chances of all of us getting together and creating our own?[nbsp][nbsp]Is it doable?[nbsp][nbsp]Do we have time between us? Whatcha think?[nbsp]

[pdstein]

DKG,

I've started hacking up a custom version of Phorum (http://www.phorum.org) for myself and my clients.[nbsp][nbsp]It's written in PHP3 and works with mySQL, both of which FQ supports and I'm reasonably familiar with.

The Phorum software is free and distributed with the GNU General Public License.[nbsp][nbsp]I believe that means anybody can use it and change it, but they can't distribute modified versions of it.[nbsp][nbsp](Somebody correct me if I'm wrong about that).[nbsp][nbsp]That might preclude a community effort to customize it and make it widely available to everyone with FQ. But, you might check it out and see if it meets your needs as it is or with slight modification.

- Paul

[Jacob Stetser]

AFAIK (IANAL, JSYK...) the GPL (the GNU public license) is what is known as the standard for &quot;Free Software&quot; as in the source code is open and unfettered.

You may, and are encouraged by the license, distribute modified versions... I believe your modified versions must also be GPLed, and you must retain any copyright and attribute to the original authors in addition to your own.

As for phorum, I like it, but I want a flat version (like the UBB, and more feature rich. As it is, it's pretty bare-bones.

If you do modify phorum, seriously consider submitting changes back to the author for inclusion in the phorum base. That's the way things are done in the Open Source arena, or so I hear :)

Jake
------------------
icongarden.com/?fq (http://icongarden.com/?fq)
icongarden: making good ideas grow.

[Justin]

I messed with Phorum, and we were considering offering a modified version as a preinstalled script installed into the core (with a shared database, etc), but it does need a lot more features. I haven't had the time lately to mess with it, but once I get some other projects out of the way I may be able to get something done with this :)

But I do think it could easily be modified to be more customizable, flat like the UBB, with multiple forums, etc - with a lot of work of course. It's speed makes it worth consideration though - and it is a nice script, although lacking in features.

If (and it's a big if) I get around to making this thing work the way I'd like it to, I could easily make a conversion utility to convert UBB threads into Phorum threads once I have it set up flat like the UBB, as that would probably be the one thing to stop people from converting...

Again, this would be some time in the future if/when I get time to mess with it - it's not #1 on the priority list, although there have been many threads on this topic.

------------------
Justin Nelson
FutureQuest Support

[DKG]

I am completely clueless about all this, so forgive me for the dumb question... :o
But is it easier, possible, efficient... to do it as a group?[nbsp][nbsp]Like having assigned tasks etc.[nbsp][nbsp]

And I agree that it would/should be open source.[nbsp][nbsp]Especially considering the nature of the code, FQ, Linux... it would seem wrong to do otherwise. I think?

[pdstein]

Jake - I think the latest version of phorum allows each forum administrator to select between flat and multi-level threads.

I must admit though, I haven't actually installed and used it yet, just read through the code...

Everyone - perhaps we ought to try to come up with a list of the features that we would like to see added to phorum.[nbsp][nbsp]There's a good chance that others already involved with the development of Phorum would also want these features.[nbsp][nbsp]There are definitely advantages to trying to work these changes into the &quot;official&quot; Phorum, but if that's not possible we could then form our own group to develop an FQuest version of Phorum.

What do you think?

Since this thread is getting long, I'm going to start a new thread called Suggested Phorum Changes.[nbsp][nbsp]Post your ideas there.

- Paul

[frankc]

Phorum sounds very interesting, but FWIW it does require at least a Gold package at FQ.[nbsp][nbsp]My church can't afford it and I'll have to stick with Discus for now.

I like the UBB and admin 2 of 'em, but it's changed SO often for bugfixes and features I can't and won't customize it.[nbsp][nbsp]Discus Pro has great features and is easier to use from an admin point of view, and is $53 less expensive.[nbsp][nbsp]Discus' install system and the automated site checker are just incredible.[nbsp][nbsp]Installation took a bit of time, but the directions were very clear.

Just my 2 cents worth...
------------------
Frank

Hosanna! Lutheran Church www.hosannachurch.com (http://www.hosannachurch.com)

[DKG]

Frank, re &quot;Phorum requires at least a Gold package at FQ.&quot;
Really? I'm confused.[nbsp][nbsp]Does it take up that much more space? Yuck, that is bad news.
Can you or anyone else explain?[nbsp][nbsp]

[Justin]

Phorum uses a MySQL database, which is only available with the Gold package or above...

------------------
Justin Nelson
FutureQuest Support

[DKG]

Yup, I just went and read that.[nbsp][nbsp]Sigh.
How did I overlook that??
Back to the drawing board...

[Steve]

I started this thread with the original question about the merits of Ultimate Bulletin Board.[nbsp][nbsp]Even though the conversation has turned in another direction, I though it might be useful to share my final decision.

I downloaded Discus, installed it, and began to customize it.[nbsp][nbsp]This took a whole day mainly because almost all of this CGI stuff is new to me, I had to learn what 755 meant, etc.[nbsp][nbsp]Even though I did get it to work, I wasn't real happy with it.[nbsp][nbsp]Too many rough edges, inconsistencies, and little things that didn't work right.[nbsp][nbsp]I felt I was struggling against the design.

So I downloaded the full version of UBB (yes, I paid for the one year license--$67 is cheap compared to what I'm trying to accomplish).[nbsp][nbsp]Immediately I felt a difference.[nbsp][nbsp]The installation, though not without problems, was much smoother.[nbsp][nbsp]And then when it came to customizing the functions and look of the board, there was no comparison to Discus.[nbsp][nbsp]The control panels really put me in control and it was relatively easy to get the board to look the way I wanted it to look--UBB has a very sophisticated look.[nbsp][nbsp]But what totally convinced me to stay with UBB instead of Discus are the user interface and the many features that contribute to ease of use.[nbsp][nbsp]Everything is designed to facilitate discussion and repeated use, and early tests show that even my unsophisticated users take to it right away.

If I hadn't seen UBB, I know I could have made Discus work for my forum.[nbsp][nbsp]But I'm happy I found UBB; it's so much better.

There's my three cents worth.[nbsp][nbsp]Hope it helps.[nbsp][nbsp]To be fair, remember:[nbsp][nbsp]I am not a techie and know little of programming, so the beauty of the underlying code, number of updates and fixes, etc. are not factors I appreciate.[nbsp][nbsp]I'm just going by my experience and the experience of my early users.

Thanks everybody for your help,

Steve

------------------
Steve[nbsp][nbsp]
www.childpastlives.org (http://www.childpastlives.org)
www.bizwriting.com (http://www.bizwriting.com)[nbsp][nbsp]

[DKG]

Hehe,
If you all don't stop, you're going to convert me! =)

[frankc]

I have 2 UBBs and 1 Discus.[nbsp][nbsp]Overall, I'd say that UBB is more configurable in terms of looks but each update adds bugs which require seemingly constant maintenance/upgrades.[nbsp][nbsp]It is not terribly admin-friendly for managing the boards.[nbsp][nbsp]It &quot;looks nicer&quot; out of the so-called box.[nbsp][nbsp]It was easy to install on NT (haven't done one on UNIX) and there's pretty good support from other users.[nbsp][nbsp]It uses cookies for user info, but they can be flakey at times, losing info and preferences.[nbsp][nbsp]The price has risen from $135 6/98 to $152 4/99 with annual upgrades after the first year at $25 (at this time).[nbsp][nbsp]The UBB home page still says Version 5.25 due out in February, but the current version is 5.35.[nbsp][nbsp]Ted's very busy with a coming move to WA from VA, lots of irons in the fire.

Discus is much more admin-friendly for managing the boards, seemingly more stable, has much better install/management help files, takes longer to install (this one is on a Unix system), is less looks-configurable, and costs less.[nbsp][nbsp]Used the site-checker once out of curiosity to check my Discus and found it to be very neat.[nbsp][nbsp]I wish the free version included cookies for user info and self-registration.

Just my 2 cents worth (now I'm up to 4 on this topic!)
------------------
Frank
Hosanna! Lutheran Church[nbsp][nbsp]www.hosannachurch.com (http://www.hosannachurch.com)