DNS parallel universes

[Matt]

Not sure where the best place to post this is, so FQ staff, please move as necessary.

Here's the scenario:
Client is with ISP A that provides both Internet service and hosting space. Client moves hosting from ISP A to a dedicated hosting company, such as FutureQuest. When client goes to visit website, client gets old, outdated website... why? because client is using ISP A's DNS servers which still reflect the old entries, despite the fact that domain name no longer publicly resolves to their network. This issue is resolved, we say "just use the dedicated IP address." However, this ISP is a big local provider, so other businesses within that ISP's network ALSO see the old website. Is there any automated way to have domain removed from ISP's entries? In an ideal world, it would be done auomatically. In a slightly less ideal world, we would simply ask and it would be done. In the real world, it may never happen, even if a request is made... and even less likely to happen if client has moved to ISP B and is no longer a customer of ISP A.

Given enough time, a domain name may make the rounds through multiple ISPs and hosting companies, all leaving DNS records behind within that local network. So, customers using that ISP's network see "ghost" websites (or erroneous page not found errors). E-mail sent within that ISP or hosting company's network never reaches its intended destination.

Surely there is a solution to this, but I am not sure what? Any suggestions?

Thanks,
Matt

[Jeff]

I think it's going to be pretty rare for an ISP to use the same nameservers for hosting as to resolve domains for ISP access; unfortunate in this case though since you can't have everyone else local switch to opendns, etc :(

[Bruce]

Client is with ISP A that provides both Internet service and hosting space. Client moves hosting from ISP A to a dedicated hosting company, such as FutureQuest. When client goes to visit website, client gets old, outdated website... why? because client is using ISP A's DNS servers which still reflect the old entries, despite the fact that domain name no longer publicly resolves to their network.This is sadly a fairly common situation with ISPs where they host the DNS cache and DNS authorities for sites they host from the same software instance (usually using BIND). Since the authorities consider themselves authoritative for the domain, they don't consult external authorities when resolving queries, so you get old data.

FWIW FutureQuest will never have this problem, as our caches and authorities are completely independent (with some minor exceptions for internal data).

Is there any automated way to have domain removed from ISP's entries?No. You will need to contact ISP A and tell them the web site is no longer hosted there, so please remove all DNS entries related to that domain from their system. Until they do so, everything using their DNS caches will continue to use bogus data.

In an ideal world, it would be done auomatically.In an ideal world, no ISP would tie their caches and authorities together, and yes then it would be all done automatically.

In the real world, it may never happen, even if a request is made... and even less likely to happen if client has moved to ISP B and is no longer a customer of ISP A.Ouch. :sad:

The only other way to get around this would be for everybody that needs to contact your site from within ISP A to install their own DNS cache software that won't trust ISP A's caches. Obviously this isn't a good solution, and may not even be possible. Some ISPs also capture all DNS queries and route them to their own caches as well, so it may be ineffective too. :hrmm:

[Andilinks]

In the real world, it may never happen...Interestingly a former ISP of mine (AOL) still has a six year old copy of my website (http://members.aol.com/__121b_jdTdQo5Q48LCpVOn7fd0mRhTkJuoKkOx6IsHtxnb7Uw=) on their servers, I cancelled the account in 2002. Fortunately my domain never resided there, but it is indexed by Google and currently appears on page one of a search on my domain name.

[jmihawkins]

Thanks Matt - this may explain the occasional 'wierd-out' for me - customers placing orders for items we've not carried for several years, or at prices waaaay out of date - typically these are from the Australia/SE Asia area, but sometimes from just down the road. I'm used to my AOL customers referencing weeks-old (cached) data, so had assumed cached pages, but could never figure out how data could be cached for months/years/decades...