Getting really sick of Yahoo's graylisting.

[DogAndPony]

Your message has been received by deedee.futurequest.net but has been
undeliverable to the following recipients for at least 2 hours.
The mail system will continue to attempt to deliver your message
to these recipients for a total of 2 days. You do not need to
resend your message at this time.

Recipient(s):
MUNGED@yahoo.com

It takes so long to get an email delivered through the stonewall at Yahoo that mailing list subscribers think their subscriptions are failing -- since the confirmation emails aren't showing up for more than a day -- and they're submitting additional requests to subscribe.

Do the Yahooligans really think it's necessary to delay mail THAT long to prove it's not being sent through a hijacked server / relay / whatever?

And why in the H. E. Double Hockey-Sticks hasn't Yahoo realized by now that that FQ is NOT A SPAM HAVEN? Why are we as an HSP not whitelisted??

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr...

:ythulk:

[johnfl68]

I may be stating the obvious - but do you have domainkeys signing enabled (some or all)? Email seems to move a bit faster to yahoo accounts if it is.

John

[DogAndPony]

I may be stating the obvious - but do you have domainkeys signing enabled (some or all)? Email seems to move a bit faster to yahoo accounts if it is.I hadn't heard that actually helps. I'll activate it for domains with mailing lists and see what happens...

Thanks!

[sheila]

(1) As far as we know, DK signing does help.
(2) Enabling DK signing for a given domain does not have any effect on the mailing list, as the mailing list is sent from
lists.example.com (and not from example.com)
(3) All ezmlm(-idx) lists have DK automatically enabled and signed.
http://www.aota.net/forums/showthread.php?postid=156192#post156192

[DogAndPony]

3) All ezmlm(-idx) lists have DK automatically enabled and signed.
http://www.aota.net/forums/showthread.php?postid=156192#post156192
Well, then... Since this example is an ezmlm list, I guess it's not helping much. :/

[sheila]

You might want to review some of the "FAQs" at
http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/mail/postmaster/
Perhaps they will provide some insight or useful suggestions?

[DogAndPony]

You might want to review some of the "FAQs" at
http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/mail/postmaster/
Perhaps they will provide some insight or useful suggestions?So... They say they're NOT using greylisting.

Why is it that I get the feeling they're lying in order to avoid tipping their hand to spammers? (Like that would do any good in this case?)

If they're really not, that pretty much leaves rejection (temporary??) due to FQ's mail servers being open proxies or relays. Which, gee, I'm pretty sure they're not. http://www.robtex.com/rbl/ says the site's IP -- which the mailer-daemon message says is the originating IP -- is either "OK" or "not whitelisted" on all the RBLs.

Yahoo also provides some really vague answers re: "Why is my mail being rejected" like "Don't send unsolicited email." Or that it's due to "content policy".

Besides, if the message is being delayed and not just being rejected outright, I would think the only two options would be greylisting or plain old crappy service.

Am I missing something here? If this fairly common problem isn't greylisting, what is it?

[sheila]

Whether they are "greylisting" or not... this is what I can tell you. When messages are neither refused with a fatal error (500-level error) nor accepted (200-level code), but are given a temporary refusal (400-level error), these are the errors that we are generally seeing from Yahoo in our mail logs...

Either this one:
Remote_host_said:_451_Message_temporarily_deferred_

or this one:
Remote_host_said:_421_Message_temporarily_deferred_-_4.16.51._Please_refer_to_http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/mail/defer/defer-06.html/

Most of the time the message is refused with one of the above errors a few times and then eventually accepted.

Maybe it isn't greylisting. (What's in a name?) But anyhow, this is what we are seeing in our mail logs...

[DogAndPony]

Most of the time the message is refused with one of the above errors a few times and then eventually accepted.Yeah, that was the impression I got. Looks like maybe they're deferring for some period (just?) under the 2 days that FQ servers keep trying.

Not helpful...

And in the case of these subscription confirmations, they might as well not be getting through at all if people repeatedly subscribe, or maybe just give up.

:dunno:

Anyway... Thanks for looking at this!

[sheila]

My thinking with suggesting the FAQ or other Yahoo Postmaster resources, is that they may offer some kind of whitelisting or preferential mass-mailing deal, where you could get your mailing list "approved" or preferential treatment so that the emails could go through? Some of the large ISPs and webmail services offer arrangements of that type...

[DogAndPony]

My thinking with suggesting the FAQ or other Yahoo Postmaster resources, is that they may offer some kind of whitelisting or preferential mass-mailing deal, where you could get your mailing list "approved" or preferential treatment so that the emails could go through? Some of the large ISPs and webmail services offer arrangements of that type...Well, I doubt any of my clients would even show up on their radar.

But if I have ongoing trouble, I may give them a holler.

Thanks!

[DogAndPony]

Today:

From: MAILER-DAEMON@deedee.futurequest.net
To: listmaster@MUNGED
Subject: failure notice

Hi. This is the qmail-send program at deedee.futurequest.net.
I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following addresses.
This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out.

<MUNGED@yahoo.com>:
Connected to 216.39.53.3 but greeting failed.
Remote host said: 421 Message from (69.5.3.MUNGED) temporarily deferred - 4.16.50. Please refer to http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/mail/defer/defer-06.html
I'm not going to try again; this message has been in the queue too long.
"Greeting failed". Which means their server didn't even bother to look at the message, correct?

Like I said before, if this isn't greylisting, what could it be? [That's rhetorical; I'm not expecting an answer.]

The linked text says that either the message "exhibited characteristics of spam," or our network has been generating spam complaints.

These people are wearing me out.

[EDIT] I just used their contact form.

I think it's interesting that two of the links to postmaster contact forms on their site are broken.

(Pardon me whilst I straighten my tinfoil hat...)

[johnmcfarland]

Over the past few days all of the mail i'm sending to yahoo accounts is being delayed. Domain keys are in place and recognized at the other end by yahoo. Contacted yahoo and sent their support requested information and awaiting their response.

[Jeff]

Also contacted yahoo for a similar issue and though it said I'd get a response within 48 hours on the 19th, none has been received yet. (I used an @yahoo.com address to inquire about the delays receiving mail at my @yahoo.com address.)

Hello,

This is an automated message regarding your recent request for Yahoo!
Mail Customer Care support. We have received your message and will
respond within the next 48 hours with an answer.

Thank you for reaching out to us. We look forward to helping you!

Sincerely,

Yahoo! Customer Care

**Please do not respond to this message as no one will receive it.

[Wassercrats]

Sounds like every webmaster should provide a contact form instead of just providing an email address, and a way for people to retrieve replies by logging in. And maybe get an email account at every major free webmail company and tell people to send email to the address that corresponds to the address they're sending from (customer@yahoo.com sends to webmaster@yahoo.com, etc.) Personally, I use postal mail as much as possible.

[robpitt]

I'm suffering from this as well. Personal email is not getting through.
Please can futurequest investigate and give Yahoo/BT a kick.

Your message has been received by escher.futurequest.net but has been
undeliverable to the following recipients for at least 12 hours.
The mail system will continue to attempt to deliver your message
to these recipients for a total of 2 days. You do not need to
resend your message at this time.

Recipient(s):
***********@btinternet.com

[Bob]

Rob,

The email logs show the following error for the messages you are referring to:

2008-03-03 10:39:47.007673500 starting delivery 724165: msg 32894 to remote xxxxxxxxx@btinternet.com
2008-03-03 10:39:50.751733500 delivery 724165: deferral: Connected_to_195.50.106.135_but_greeting_failed./Remote_host_said:_421_Message_from_(69.5.X.XX)_temporarily_deferr ed_-_4.16.50._Please_refer_to_http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/mail/defer/defer-06.html/


The IP referenced is the IP assigned to your domain and we would recommend reviewing the Yahoo web page that is referred to in the error.
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/mail/defer/defer-06.html

In searching Google for related posts I am still seeing recent complaints regarding Yahoo's "deferring" delivery such as this one:
http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/spamassassin/users/116658

-Bob

[robpitt]

I'd always assumed we all went through a shared mail server but I guess thats not the case ... filling out yahoo form.

Thanks.

[Randall]

My father's having trouble sending to Yahoo addresses too -- but I don't know the specifics because I haven't seen the undeliverable messages. Not sure if they're failing completely or just delayed. Have to ask him about that...

Randall :ytthink:

[johnmcfarland]

Copy of Message received on 2/28/2008:

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello John,

Thank you for writing to Yahoo! Mail.

Please note that if you are not the administrator of the mail server in
question, kindly contact your email administrator directly with the
error message you are receiving.

If you are seeing a 421 error code in your SMTP logs indicating that the
messages you are trying to send are "temporarily deferred due to user
complaints," this means that we have observed unusual traffic patterns
from your IP address and have been getting considerable complaints from
our users regarding emails from your server.

This is not a permanent error; your system may automatically re-try at a
later time. If, however, you are seeing this same error consistently
over an extended period of time, we encourage you to provide us with
more information so that we can help diagnose your problem.

For bulk mail senders, please visit the URL below to review our best
practice recommendations and request assistance.

http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/mail/postmaster/bulk.html

If your mail server does not primarily send bulk mailings, please reply
to this email and indicate the mail streams that are being sent from
your email server(s), e.g., personal/corporate emails, transactional
mailings, mailing list postings, newsletters.

Furthermore, if you haven't already done so, please provide the
pertinent information about the issue:

a) Detailed description of the problem (including when it started);
b) The sending IP address(es) affected;
c) Specify all types of emails being sent from the outgoing mail
server;
d) The specific error code(s) your servers are getting from our MTAs;
e) SMTP logs showing the entire mail transcript, from the initial
attempt to connect to our MX up until the connection is eventually
deferred/blocked.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Well, it's been a month since I've supplied them with requested information. Still experiencing "delayed delivery notice" on a daily basis. Can't even send a text message to myself at yahoo without delay.

Anyone have any luck getting mail through to yahoo? Isn't this a restraint of trade issue? SPAM from Yahoo sent to me at my yahoo address gets through with no problem. Why are legit emails being delayed?

[DogAndPony]

Anyone have any luck getting mail through to yahoo? Isn't this a restraint of trade issue?IANAL, but I think it could be. It occurred to me yesterday as I got yet another delay on another domain.SPAM from Yahoo sent to me at my yahoo address gets through with no problem. Why are legit emails being delayed?Apparently because Yahoo is run by Yahoos.

Yesterday's delayed email was one of about 3 or 4 I sent to a client. So maybe Yahoo thinks no one should have to send more than x number of emails to one of their users per day?

I'm so sick of this that I'm going to start telling all of my clients that if they have a Yahoo email address, I won't send mail to it, and that they will have to get a Gmail address if they have to have a non-FQ / freebie address.

Additionally, if a client has Internet service through ATT/SBC/SBCGlobal/SBC-Yahoo or whatever the hell they're calling themselves today, I will recommend that they find another ISP, due to the company's refusal to allow email to be sent though third-party servers. I'm sick to death of having to do user support and explain Yahoo's policies every time a new client gets an account with me and calls me saying "I can get my mail, but why can't I send?"

Yahoo is no longer worth my time, or that of any of my clients.

[pkuharic]

i am definitely getting it right now.
april 8, 2008. 12:20 pm eastern.
see below.
major bummer.
what can be done?

---

Your message has been received by mqs0049.futurequest.net but has been
undeliverable to the following recipients for at least 2 hours.
The mail system will continue to attempt to deliver your message
to these recipients for a total of 2 days. You do not need to
resend your message at this time.

Recipient(s):
email-address@yahoo.com

[DogAndPony]

The last one that got delayed apparently went through after the first 2-hour delay. I'd already sent a love note to Yahoo, though. They sent me back a request for all sorts of info, including mail logs. But since it went through eventually, I'm not going to bother the nice peeps at FQ to do the dirty work.

[DogAndPony]

what can be done?I think that maybe the only thing that can be done would be to send them a list of all of your servers/IPs/domains and tell them you're not a spammer or bulk mailer, and hope they whitelist you, or add some score to your IPs or whatever.

The next time I get an indefinitely delayed message, that's what I'll be doing.

[stripes]

I think that maybe the only thing that can be done would be to send them a list of all of your servers/IPs/domains and tell them you're not a spammer or bulk mailer, and hope they whitelist you, or add some score to your IPs or whatever.

The next time I get an indefinitely delayed message, that's what I'll be doing.

Which email address at Yahoo should I send this to? I'm running into this problem, very regularly. :grr:

[DogAndPony]

Which email address at Yahoo should I send this to? I'm running into this problem, very regularly. :grr:There are forms that Yahoo provides. Links to them are here: http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/mail/postmaster/forms_index.html

The "Yahoo! Mail Delivery Issues Form" is probably the one you want.

Also, here's their FAQ:

http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/mail/postmaster/index.html

[DogAndPony]

For those interested, I also just saw this:

Q: Does Yahoo! Mail offer a feedback loop program to help senders minimize complaint rates?

A: Due to the success of our beta program, we are currently making changes to the application process for the Yahoo! Mail Complaint Feedback Loop program. As such, we are *not* processing new applications at this time. We do hope to re-launch an improved, more streamlined online process for interested participants soon. Please check our Postmaster Help pages often for updates in this regard.