View Full Version : Reseller Questions/Packages/IRM's
Evoir
10-01-2003, 11:15 PM
Howdie,
I occassionally get a new client that really only needs a 2 or 3 page website. They don't care about stats and have no need for a mailing list. Would you reccomend just ordering a IRM on an existing package? Do you always order a new hosting account for each client? I have a few clients who use a total of 3 megs of space... it just seems wasteful, you know?
There are certain clients of mine that would not qualify, who are robust users of their accounts. I also know that the stats would not be seperate, and email lists as well. The overlap of email addresses should not be an issue.
How do you do it? Then, how do you bill them for the hosting?
Thanks!
Evie
p.s. I would really dig a resellers area on the forums... anyone else? A place to talk about the issues of being a reseller, how to make it work.... Any possibility?
If their needs are that small, then I'm of the mind that: a) FutureQuest isn't for them, and b) taking on the hosting side of their business to you isn't worthwhile. They're probably better off with some free ISP web space or a bare bones fly by night hosting operation than a company that places a precedent on quality, reliability, and non-restrictive packages.
Dan
Evoir
10-01-2003, 11:31 PM
hmmmm. But, all of my clients are on Futurequest. This makes my job easier. The more hosts I have to deal with, the more difficult my job (obtaining passwords, ftp, dealing with support blah blah...) I'm confused. You wouldn't put them on a IRM? I mean, the cost is $25...
In other words, I'll make $ from them for the design work... but charging them $100 even for the most basic package seems overkill. %)
But, I just don't know if this is .... kosher or not.
I would be tempted to collect those sorts of clients on one package and have the 2nd/3rd/4th/5th ones be IRMs. If you haven't got a second client yet, then IRM the first one on the back of your own personal account until the second one shows up. The only real issue is overlap of email addresses - which you say isn't a concern for you ... at the moment anyway.
I have several small clients that I started with an IRM. Some have grown to the point I moved them to their own accounts, others stayed with an IRM.
For the IRM accounts I charge them consistent with the value they are getting and what they can reasonable afford. In some cases its less than what a full account would cost and in others its more. I have gotten referrals from some of the smallest clients that have resulted in new cleints that require full accounts.
Put them on an IRM, charge a reasonable amount, charge hourly for services and you have nothing to lose.
What's to lose? Oh, only your entire site and online presence if the IRM sites don't abide by the TOS. And let's face it, anyone who's needs are covered by an IRM probably aren't web savvy enough to read and/or pay attention to the TOS. The most naive of netizens are typical guilty of spam-type activities (intentional or otherwise), so it isn't a huge stretch to envision problems. And with profit margins so low on a IRM site, is it really worth having to keep an eye on that sort of thing, monitoring resource usage, etc.? I certainly don't think so, but to each his own.
Dan
LightGuide
10-02-2003, 01:32 AM
Lately, with the new "Starter" package available from FQ for only $7.95 a month (annual), I've been strongly recommending it to smaller clients -- in some cases, even those who only require an email presence.
That keeps me out of the loop on the money end; and the client gets FQ's rock solid servers, excellent reliability, and superb service.
Whilst it's certainly true you can get hosting for less than that (I've seen prices at less than a dollar a month) -- based in very direct experience straightening out disasters for various friends and clients, I can tell you that you get exactly what you pay for at such operations... downtime all over the place, badly managed servers, non-existant service, and email that works when it feels like it.
Considering I paid more than $7.95 for not much of a lunch today at the local diner, I should think that amount would be both affordable and well worth it for all concerned -- even in the case of the smallest clients.
etLux
Randall
10-02-2003, 01:39 AM
I use IRMs for my current clients. The sites are small, traffic is light -- they do their business locally -- and they want me to manage the sites for them. One is a current employer, the other a former one (that one's really a ghost site, but he keeps it for the email), so I split the cost of the (annual) basic package between them.
For those sites, the hosting isn't intended to make me money (my own domain is an IRM on the same account, so I do get free hosting from the deal). But for other clients I would be willing to charge for my own services but still give them the hosting at cost. I've got another site in the works, but I haven't decided whether to add another IRM to this account or put him in a Starter package.
Dan's cynicism may have its merits, but if you have a relationship with the client outside of hosting a web site and you trust them (or better yet, they trust you), an IRM can be perfect for clients with limited needs. A small, inexpensive web site doesn't imply a cheap / naive / netiquette-deficient owner.
Don't worry Dan, I won't tell my boss what you said. :devil:
Randall
If you have a small client that you maintain the site for, without mailing lists, how are they going to violate the TOS?
To violate means they need to either access the account or have means to update it, execute scripts or send spam. If they only need 2-3 pages without mail lists I doubt if they want to do any of that.
My small IRM clients can't update anything on the account. They don't have the expertise nor the desire. They are willing to pay for the few changes they need when they need them.
I don't make much money from them but then they don't take much time to support. In the end it is a win-win for both of us, so why not.
Evoir
10-02-2003, 01:51 AM
Originally posted by LightGuide:
Lately, with the new "Starter" package available from FQ for only $7.95 a month (annual), I've been strongly recommending it to smaller clients -- in some cases, even those who only require an email presence.
That keeps me out of the loop on the money end; and the client gets FQ's rock solid servers, excellent reliability, and superb service. Part of what is going on for me, is that I want to make a little bit of profit on the hosting, because I do offer alot of hosting support. It is easier to sometimes have them pay a bit more in hosting and support them than to bill them for an hour or two of support time. FQ's starter price is good, and I like having everything all tidy in it's own package. But, it doesn't cost me a whole lot more ($12 or something) to just start them on the Basic package and then turn a profit selling it for retail price.
For a while I was pushing FQ's starter deal, but then I realized I was cutting myself out. Then I thought of the IRM. I could hook them up with an IRM and still charge them a bit more to cover my support time, and it would still be less than $100 for the year for them. (probably around $75 or something, not sure yet).
Dank, I hadn't thought of that.... good point. Will definitely consider who I am hosting this way. But honestly, I consider that for all of my clients. It would be almost as bad if they hit a TOS violation within their own account. So, I try to limit thier ability to even come near one. But, I do appreciate your cynicism and will keep my eyes open for this.
Still undecided but totally appreciate the discussion. :)
Evoir
10-02-2003, 01:57 AM
Originally posted by JMT:
If you have a small client that you maintain the site for, without mailing lists, how are they going to violate the TOS? The onlyn thing that comes to mind is email.... they could be spamming folks with email. Sending too many messages. But overall, I am in the same situation. I'd be updating the site.
LightGuide
10-02-2003, 02:02 AM
This is somewhat peripheral to the topic -- and it is certainly my own perspective, only...
But I really would have to question sometimes whether some of the circumstances above, considering the few dollars involved, would merit the added complication... lol.
Usually I like to take the simplest route, wherever possible.
Then again, as many have said, I do tend to be simple-minded.
etLux
DogAndPony
10-02-2003, 03:39 PM
Hi, Evie...
I use IRMs for several clients, and it works great.
I manage the accounts for them, so I make sure there are no problems with email address conflicts.
I also tend to know the people I'm hosting, so TOS violations haven't happened (not yet, at least). Even if I don't know them personally, I'm doing their web design, so it's not like I'm offering automated signups and self-hosting, which would leave me open to possible TOS problems.
It sounds like you're doing pretty much the same for your clients, so I'd agree with everyone here who recommends IRMs.
As for Dan's comment about folks who only need a few pages either not being web-savvy, or that "they would be better off with some free ISP web space or a bare bones fly by night hosting operation" -- well, that's just not true in every case.
Even folks who only need three pages deserve "a company that places a precedent on quality, reliability, and non-restrictive packages." And they deserve decent design as well.
There are many people and companies who need a small but still professional-looking and professionally-performing website. And if they don't happen to be web designers, they need someone who can provide them with those services.
The kind of sites I do are, for example, built for small independent films, unsigned recording artists, production people and other freelancers in the entertainment industry who don't have a big corporate budget.
But they all need -- and deserve -- a good-looking site that gets their faces, their names and their work in front of website visitors. They also need an easy way for people to contact them, and a web form is perfect for that. They may only need a few pages, but those pages need to look good, and to be reliably available.
So, I'd say IRMs are great for a lot of clients.
As for pricing; I tend to customize the price according to the resources used, and in relation to the main account's cost. I sometimes charge an IRM-hosted client the cost of the main account, and sometimes minus a percentage. This includes minor maintenance like adding a few new email accounts, a little tech support, etc. And that's on top of design and HTML update fees, domain registration, and so forth. Some of my clients have their own main account plus some IRMs. For them, I tend to charge much less for IRMs, plus design and update fees, setup fees, etc. If the IRM site is minimal -- like a simple page that serves to catch links to a certain brand or promotion and funnel traffic to the main site -- I'll sometimes only charge for setup, design, etc.
When a client needs less -- no database, etc. -- I put them under a smaller main account, so their cost is lower.
So, some of my clients are getting web hosting with a custom domain and email -- on the greatest host on the planet -- for less than two Number 1's at In-n-Out Burger a month (protein style, thank you). :D
Dan... Sounds to me like you've been burned by some bad clients. Bummer! :\
...Bob
Bob West
Dan... Sounds to me like you've been burned by some bad clients.
No, not really. Just presenting my view of the pros and cons. Some call it cynical, I call it analytical.
Dan
Randall
10-02-2003, 04:56 PM
Just presenting my view of the pros and cons. Looked like all cons from here. ;)
Randall
True, but only because that's what I mostly saw...
Dan
Randall
10-02-2003, 11:23 PM
OK, so you're not a cynic then -- you're a pessimist. ;)
Randall
# Doom, gloom. Doom, gloom
If that's all we're piecing the puzzle together with, realist would be equally fitting. :\
Dan
Evoir
10-03-2003, 01:49 AM
:P :police: %) :cool:
vBulletin® v3.6.8, Copyright ©2000-2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.