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Dan Kaplan
05-16-2000, 01:36 AM
http://runningclub.org/
http://www.runningclub.org/

How can those be two different sites?[nbsp][nbsp]My brain's not wrapping around this one too well...

For that matter, can anyone explain this one:

http://www.usatrainers.com/

It's been bugging me for awhile.[nbsp][nbsp]It forwards to what appears to be the same address, but doesn't load until you click on the link.

Deviate
PaulKroll
05-16-2000, 02:08 AM
Same as the situation on the FQ servers. The MySQL server on FQ is mysql01.futurequest.net, which is certainly different than www.futurequest.net (http://www.futurequest.net), yes?
It's a local DNS entry. FQ can have a million different sites all accessed w/".futurequest.net" (and on the same machine, or different machines) if they want.

Now, the WHY, that I can only surmise. Let's say... someone abandoned a site, and when someone else wanted to use it, the host company didn't bother to take down both DNS entries, but only fixed one? That'd be pretty lame, but not outside the realm of the possible given the range of hosting company quality. :)
Dan Kaplan
05-16-2000, 02:15 AM
Wouldn't anything .domain.com be a subdomain, whereas domain.com with or without the www. is still the same domain?[nbsp][nbsp]If not, why is the www. irrelevant in whois availability searches?

Any thoughts on the second example?

Dan
jimbo
05-16-2000, 02:17 AM
I don't get what the second example is???[nbsp][nbsp] What is the question?

As far as the first one, the www.runningclub.org (http://www.runningclub.org) was the one that came up in the whois search I did.[nbsp][nbsp]That is really weird, and I hope somebody has an answer, cause I'd REALLY love to see what it is![nbsp][nbsp]:)
[This message has been edited by jimbo (edited 05-16-00@01:19 am)]
Dan Kaplan
05-16-2000, 02:22 AM
On the second one (usatrainers.com), on the two computers and three browsers I have checked with, the URL goes to a white page that says to click on the link to be taken to the site.[nbsp][nbsp]But the URL of the link you click on appears to be exactly the same as the one that goes to the blank page, yet clicking on it takes you to the site?!

Dan
jimbo
05-16-2000, 02:40 AM
That is certainly odd...

I'm not even seeing that; I go directly to the page.[nbsp][nbsp]Does the link page have a meta=refresh in it, and I'm not seeing the link because of my (superbly fast, especially at this hour) connection??

For poops and giggles, I'm using IE5 on Win NT4.0.
Dan Kaplan
05-16-2000, 02:45 AM
Here's the full contents of the source code:
<head><title>Object moved</title></head>
<body><h1>Object Moved</h1>This object may be found <a HREF=&quot;/&quot;>here</a>.</body>
I guess I hadn't looked at the source code before.[nbsp][nbsp]Could it be the anti-trailing slash paradox?

I have tested it with Win NT and NS 4.6, as well as Win 2000 with IE 5 and Netscape 4.72 -- same results for all of them.

Dan

edit: I should also mention that reloading the page instead of clicking on the link will also take you to the site...

[This message has been edited by Dan Kaplan (edited 05-16-00@01:46 am)]
jimbo
05-16-2000, 02:51 AM
Odd, I just tried it with NS 4.7 on saw exactly what you mean.[nbsp][nbsp]That is strange, possible a internal/external redirection type of thing??

Oddly enough, the second time I tried it, with NS, I went right to the page.[nbsp][nbsp]I also noticed that if you click on &quot;This page has moved, click here&quot; you can't hit your back button on the browser once you have gone through to the main page.[nbsp][nbsp]I'd like to see the esplanation for this, too :).
Justin
05-16-2000, 05:43 AM
Back to domain names:

FutureQuest.net is a domain name.
www.FutureQuest.net (http://www.FutureQuest.net) is a domain name with a machine name specified. Could be ftp.FutureQuest.net, Service.FutureQuest.net, or AnythingYourHeartDesires.FutureQuest.net.

The www is the most commonly used subdomain for a web site - but it is not necessarily required. Due to the more recent popularity of URL's without the 'www', most people also set up just FutureQuest.net to also point to web content.

(web based) Whois searches (among other things) will simply strip the 'www' from the domain first, since it is such a common mistake to leave it attached (you can probably use an http:// as well and still perform a valid whois - most of them are quite lenient). But try that with the command line whois (which ultimately the whois CGI script is calling) and you'll find a different story ;)

When you consider that 'www' is just another subdomain, it's easy to understand that you can have domain.com and www.domain.com (http://www.domain.com) show different content (and can be on different machines, in different NOCs, on different planets... er, scratch that last one :P)

Here is a host lookup on your example:
runningclub.org has address 209.133.16.75
runningclub.org mail is handled (pri=20) by mailroute.mtnworks.net
runningclub.org mail is handled (pri=5) by mail.cfweb.com

www.runningclub.org (http://www.runningclub.org) has address 209.133.16.76
Might be on the same machine, might not - but it appears that they have their web server on one machine, and mail on another (and use just runningclub.org rather than, say, mail.runningclub.org - just a guess though).

If you want to really be boggled:

http://FutureQuest.net[nbsp][nbsp]-- on TAZ, redirects to 'www' on SIX
http://Service.FutureQuest.net -- on an entirely different machine :)

As for your second example, it's quite simple: Frames ;)

------------------
Justin Nelson
FutureQuest (http://www.FutureQuest.net/index.php) Support
Deb
05-16-2000, 06:03 AM
Ooohhhhh somebody had cheese sticks for din din :P

-- No Water After Midnight!
jimbo
05-16-2000, 10:58 AM
<<As for your second example, it's quite simple: Frames>>

Out of curiosity, why then would it happen in NS, but only once, and not all in IE?[nbsp][nbsp]You type it in once, you get the &quot;moved&quot; message, the second time you go to the URL, you go directly to the main page.[nbsp][nbsp]How could that be done with Frames?
Dan Kaplan
05-16-2000, 11:33 AM
Darn it, I hate it when I'm more confused after having a question answered than I was before asking it![nbsp][nbsp]:)[nbsp][nbsp]Who woulda thunk that www is a subdomain?

I guess the most important question is what's this mean for us non-server-tech types?[nbsp][nbsp]Obviously, it's rare for www.domain.com (http://www.domain.com) and domain.com to be separated with different content, but is there any danger of sloppy handling by a host leaving the door open for someone to sneak in and &quot;steal&quot; half your domain?[nbsp][nbsp]I've been with a very bad host, and even they got that part right.[nbsp][nbsp]:P

The odd thing is that they changed the runningclub.org address at some point to require the www.[nbsp][nbsp]Not exactly evolution of website intuitiveness.

Devolution

edit: I second the confusion over the &quot;frames&quot; answer to the second example.[nbsp][nbsp]Why no target=&quot;top&quot; in the link?[nbsp][nbsp]It seems to be some sort of cache issue that resets each time you close the browser.

[This message has been edited by Dan Kaplan (edited 05-16-00@10:54 am)]
Justin
05-16-2000, 03:41 PM
I really can't explain the Frames issue as I haven't seen the problem that you saw...

As for someone &quot;stealing&quot; half of your domain, it's not that easy. When you register a domain, you own the domain - anything before the domain (the subdomain portion) has nothing to do with the domain registrars, only your host (which holds the local DNS).

All I can say is that yes, it is entirely possible and easy to have domain.com and www.domain.com (http://www.domain.com) point to different content, different IPs, etc - the only real question is why. I have no idea - but as for them having changed it, it is possible that they had changed web hosts at one point... and probably a misconfiguration on their end is causing this problem.

Hm, I noticed that runningclub.org is AKA http://perpetualadvancingtech.com/ (with *or* without the 'www'). If you go to:

http://runningclub.org/images/

You will see the directory listing, as well as this:

Stronghold/2.4.2 Apache/1.3.6 C2NetEU/2410 Server at www.perpetualadvancingtech.com (http://www.perpetualadvancingtech.com) Port 80

I wonder if runningclub.org is simply an IRM, but they have these configured differently, and somehow the 'www' version of runningclub.com ends up showing the main domain... or something...

The only way to really find out what's going on with this domain is to ask them... ;)

------------------
Justin Nelson
FutureQuest (http://www.FutureQuest.net/index.php) Support
turnkey
05-18-2000, 10:15 AM
Sometimes people will deliberately want to do what Justin is referring to for the purposes of load-balancing on a &quot;clustered&quot; server network. Often it is done programmatically with the initial &quot;www&quot; site sending the visitors to the different subs depending on the load. This &quot;back-door&quot; IP switching can be detected by looking at the URL as was observed by Dan.
Dan Kaplan
05-18-2000, 10:58 AM
Does observation imply understanding?[nbsp][nbsp]:)

Dan
turnkey
05-18-2000, 11:47 AM
Not necessarily, but it is an essential element of discovery :-) .